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Discussion in 'General Topics' started by Umer97, Nov 7, 2016.
Members of the Shia community attended last nights event on behalf of Abu Zaynab Al Haeri who will be debating with Shaykh Asrar Rashid in the near future.
Debate conditions have been initiated from the Rafidis and will be finalised soon.
@Moriarty- That is true and remember it well. I was particularly impressed by Qari Tayyib at that time and think he should be consulted on this issue. However, what Hafiz saab was saying that on the whole it is not as widespread, especially among the Muslim youth and they are not as brazen as their Wahabi counterpoint in their attacks. Also, the context of the speech must be kept in mind, so my point was to counter the comment made by kaydani1 but who now claims that Hafiz Saab has admitted he is a sell out. If that is true then that is very disappointing to hear and certainly changes my perception of that speech.
Also on Kaydani1's point on the qualifications of our English speaking Ulema, then I am not qualified to comment on that but my experiences in coming across them and it is the case with our older ones too, is that it is an ego issue. Too many jostling to be top dog and allowing personal differences to supersede the bigger picture. Sunnis need to unite on points that they agree on and not allow their ego to get in the way of defending these points. Greater sincerity and greater solidarity is the only way to move forward. The background to Shaykh Asrar's debate with Abd al-Rahman is a casing point of what I mentioned above and if these issues are not addressed then we will be handicapped in our efforts to defend the true creed. Put creed first and credit will follow, not the other way around.
He put himself for sale. Sold all of his principles and values. He affirms this and does not deny it. Many brothers have questioned him on this and he has affirmed to the fact that he has sold himself.
The problem that we face is that many English-speaking "scholars" are not scholars. This is the real problem.
Sunnis have a tendency to usher random people onto stages and make them give speeches and lectures.
Jamia al-Karam plays a major role in this problem.
When the Deobandis began chucking random people out as scholars and Muftis (from their Bury center), Sunnis thought that they were slacking and needed to produce hundreds of people also. However, this resulted in hundreds of illiterate people who are supposed to be scholars.
That is not true. The Shia went on the offensive on Hidayah Tv and other channels insulting Hazrat Aisha radiyAllahu anha and others. Then Qari Tayyib, Khurshid Sabri, Irfan Shah and Zafarullah Shah went on the counter on Takbeer Tv and Ummah channel.
All Sunnis in UK are aware of this.
Ammar Nakshwani has been known to make speeches that are provocative.
I don't think that is the case and his comments must be assessed in their correct context. That video is quite old and certainly predates the speech made by Ammar. What he was saying that in this country the Sunni/Shia divide is not as pronounced as the latter keep a lower profile. This is proven by their reluctance to bring a scholar forward from this country. on the whole they do not openly make the statements that Ammar made and certainly do not look to engage in polemics to the extent the 'Wahabi' movement do and that is the point Hafiz Ather was making. He was not trying to say that Sunni/Shia divide was small in terms of theology but rather in terms of the tensions and public debates. etc.
However, that does not excuse Hafiz Ather or any other English speaking scholar, who is aware of this issue to remain silent. Hafiz Ather was quite vocal in attacking the Wahabi movement in that clip, so if he is aware, he should voice his support for the sunni standpoint on this issue too. Sunnis must quash this attempt of the Shia's to rear their ugly head and if the likes of Hafiz Ather are on the unity vibe then they must come out and condemn the statements made by Ammar as it is those statements that will lead to increased tensions.
I understand @Harris786 point and know what he is referring too but Sunnis need to take a united stance, in order to refute their opponents. I know for a fact that many English speaking Sunni Scholars peruse this forum so my earlier message was for them. I hope @Aqdas that your brother will also come out openly on this issue, as his words carry influence. Sunnis need to unite, especially on issues like these.
Hafiz Ather sold himself. He put himself for sale.
It is better the bud bud dings dings stick to the front row seats sunnis do not what a replay of what happen with najdiman and abd al-Rahman.
'If you don't stand for something you will fall for anything'
The silence from many Sunni Scholars is deafening on this issue and once again Shaykh Asrar has taken a stand but where is the support. We have a guy who is openly casting aspersions on the shaykhayn and is calling out Sunnis to prove their uprightness but apart from a couple scholars, no one has came out publicly to at the very least voice their support for the Shaykh. What is worse when support arrives from clerics from other sects, some people on this forum cast doubt over the Shaykh's aqeeda. This issue transcends personal dislike or a blind drive towards unity and scholars who seek front row seats in gatherings should be at the forefront at taking a stand, even just to voice to their support. No doubt, many will speak after in hushed circles to say the Shaykh should have said this or not said that but the time is now to speak.
in times like these, there needs to be greater solidarity and sincerity from our scholars to ensure that the true aqeeda is defended and in this case the uprightness of the Shaykhayn is shown. I am not writing this because I am supporter of the Shaykh but this represents another opportunity for Sunnis to come together and stand up for something. It is not about standing behind the Shaykh but standing up for the Shaykhayn.
According to Dr Ather Hussain the differences between Shia and Sunni are minor and only Wahabis are the problem. In this interview him and Ammar Nakshwani seem to agree:
The unfortunate state within the Shia Community is such that no one from the entire UK Shia community has come forward. Ammar Nakshwani has silently retreated from any public debate. Thus they are having to resort to putting forward someone all the way from the USA. In my previous status on Tuesday I have already accepted Allahyaari's challenge to a debate at a "neutral TV studio", I also gave the Shia community deadline of the 29th to announce a venue, with flexibility in which I proposed we discuss debate conditions.
Now that Allahyaari is willing to debate on skype, because the UK Shia are not willing to debate face to face, I give the Shia's up until this Saturday the 29th of October to announce the venue for the debate. They can place Allahyaari on a widescreen for the public to view. The venue must be open for the public to attend with microphones and people should be allowed to record. TV channels can relay the debate live. If the Shia fail to announce a venue by Saturday then I will announce my venue and wait for them. The date for the debate is Saturday the 5th of November and the time is 8.30pm.
We await their official announcement for a venue, confirmed by Allahyaari. The clock is ticking.
Due to members of the Shia community feeling that I am dictating the debate I will allow flexibility. The event will go forth on Saturday 5th of November at 8.30pm regardless. But I will give you two options in which you have the right to choose your own venue, as this will make you feel better, and allow your leaders to come forth.
You attend my chosen venue on Nov 5th and you can discuss conditions for the debate with the public present.
You arrange the venue and I will come to your venue in Birmingham or any other city within England at the same date Nov 5th and time of 8.30pm to set debate conditions. This is giving the Shia community marginal flexibility.
*Both of the above options are with the condition that it is open to the public and people can record. As there is nothing to hide.Now take your pick. There can be no more plausible excuses for delay or indecisiveness.
What has started must finish. You have until Saturday 29th to announce a venue for the 5th of November. Otherwise I will resume with my own venue.
Shaykh Asrars Response
I have offered Ammar Nakshwani on three different statuses to debate his insinuations on the blessed Sahabah in public, yet he has failed to respond. I now announce Saturday 5th of November as my chosen date for an open debate, and Q&A session from the audience. The time selected is is 8.30pm. The venue in Birmingham will be announced in a few days. I invite not only Ammar Nakshwani but all Shia clerics from within the UK. There will be police presence arranged at the venue. The police will be present to take away any troublemakers from any side. If the Shia clergy fail to show up the Shia and Sunni public can question me regarding these issues.
As for Allahyaari's offer for a debate on a Shia channel, then I accept that on the condition that it is on a neutral TV station in a studio within the UK. I have observed how Allahyaari cuts people off or turns the volume down on his opponent, this can be seen on YouTube. Only a face to face debate in a neutral venue is possible. I am sure the Shia have UK based clerics to live up to my challenge.
'When innovations appear and my companions are insulted then the learned ones must reveal their knowledge, if they fail to do so then the curse of Allah, His angels and creation is upon them' (Hadith
That's settled it then. The neutrals/general audience won't listen to reasoned arguments, logic and documentary evidence but will believe everything a guy says because he has a phD!
All Sunni scholars should note that in future to win any debate all they need to do is ensure they have a phD, and not years of studying, learning and research and obviously the correct faith and beliefs. Get the phD and all the neutrals and general audience will believe you.
It interesting reading what Shaykh Asrar has written in reply regarding a face to face debate . In the comments below people are calling out the Shia scholars and so far there is no one able to stand up and defend their creed. Times like this makes me appreciate that over my life time so far we have had the likes of Allama Saeed Asad, Mufti Hanif Qureshi, Shaykh Asrar amongst others who have been ready to stand up to reaffirm that we are on Haq. We are truly blessed.
you speak as if the usulis have legitimacy. Please listen to this.
usuli shiites are like deobandis, sly and MORE dangerous
akhbari shiites are like ahle hadith
So, who is a bigger khabeeth, the apparent one or the hidden one ?