anglophone imams

let's keep it general here with the focus on uplifting the ways and the maslak of Ahlus Sunnah rather than bickering over the deviants. we can do that on another time/place/thread. i only gave some popular examples.

to put your mind at ease, i don't have anything to do with the group you alluded to. as to specifically point out what you mentioned, that much in and of itself wouldn't qualify them as deviants, from my meager knowledge:

promoting Maliki fiqh: all people of madhab love to uplift the status of their imam. there is nothing wrong with it as long as they accept the other madhab's and their followers as a part of the Ahlus Sunnah. You will also find many Hanafi scholars who say that Hanafi madhab "should" be followed. The "should" here is not a categorical declaration of it being fard or a statement saying other madhab's are false/dhalalah, but rather their saying that it is "asahh" or righter than others.

Wagnerian ideas: you need to mention specific ideas and then those ideas will have to be examined in light of the ways of the Ahlus Sunnah. saying this is just saying "deviant ideas"

return to gold dinar: we need to see how that stands in light of fiqh. is it haram to call people to return to a certain form of currency? what do they say about using paper currency while this convention lasts, that is, people using this form until their mission of a universal gold dinar is achieved? how does that stand in light of basic usul and fiqh, of their school, as well as others? there are people who call for conservation of forests, of protecting certain species of birds and animals, minimizing paper usage, and so on. are all of these directly related to the usul of the Ahlus Sunah or just secondary matters? the are questions that need to be answered by fuqahaa.

what i mentioned was blatant violations and outright mockery of the ways of the Ahlus Sunnah. what you mentioned was just sensationalist hype.

 

sidi AQ,

I understood most of your allusions and to whom they alluded except this one, "saying Muslims and kafirs are equal in front of Allah" and this one, " half-educated people deliberately misguiding Muslims on 5-star rihla programs and retreats "grooming" them to be subservient to the kuffaar and their interests". Can you please be explicit or give a link/reference please.

Would you also include "former actors acting as Sufi shaykhs and promoting a bizarre Maliki only fiqh and Wagnerian ideas and the return to the gold dinar" in this list of "dirty hippies"?

 

sidi abdalqadir then we agree!

 

'Aqidah and fiqh come before tasawwuf, in that order.

There is NO HAQIQAH that is divorced from Shari'ah (a lot of the dirty hippy sufis claim they are experiencing 'haqiqah' that is not understandable to the masses that are mainly Shari'ah-oriented to justify their violations of Shari'ah, legally they are batinis).

Shari'ah IS THE FOUNDATION for haqiqah.

There is NO Haqiqah that does not rest on the Shari'ah.

See the Maktubat of Imam Rabbani for detailed explanations on it.

We need to stick to Sacred Law, Sacred Law, and Sacred Law.

and when we're done withy that, we need more of Sacred Law, Sacred Law, and Sacred Law.

and finally at the last stage of our life/the path of tasawwuf, once again - SACRED LAW.

Sacred Law isn't everything that matters. It's THE ONLY thing that matters. Period.

 

anyone who claims to be following/teaching the path of ihsan, but grossly violates the 'aqidah of the Ahlus Sunnah ("not intrinsically impossible" is an example, wannabe-Qadiris celebrating christmas with padris another example of violation of basic usul, tafdilis pretending to be Ridawi's another example, propagating the misguided 'aqidah of amnesty for kafirs in the hereafter, saying Muslims and kafirs are equal in front of Allah, etc.) and/or goes against the tenets of the shari'ah or worse yet, tries to legalise and justify such violation of it (women shaking/kissing hands of "shuyukh", seekers of the path kissing the hands of kafirs, and so on, half-educated people deliberately misguiding Muslims on 5-star rihla programs and retreats "grooming" them to be subservient to the kuffaar and their interests).

 

what or who exactly do you mean by these?

 

I think we're singing from the same hymn sheet...two ways to say the same thing ;-)

This is the whole problem we are discussing in this thread. The ulema currently are not up to it or unconcerned by the problems

the saying that the leaders are a reflection of their supporters comes to mind.

sad but true, sunnism has become a fad for the new-age peer-murid clans

Ameen

 

and i was trying to be real. not sure what you mean by that akhi.

yes as far as infrastructure is concerned.

building mosques, buildings, libraries, collecting donations, disbursing zakat and funds, purchasing literature etc.

no as far as education and Sunniyat in and of itself is concerned. we still need the moral support, concern, and consideration of the 'ulema WITHOUT any nafsanic agendas.

or else, we'd go the way the wahabis and misguided dirty hippy sufis have gone building personal fan clubs, or best case scenario have no improvements, with local aunties teaching Quran to kids and half-baked self-schooled uncle-scholars delivering duroos, and the youth eventually inheriting that legacy if they don't join one of the wahabi/misguided sufi fan clubs by some chance.

we need to do it together and if the 'ulema are slacking, they need to be held accountable by the awaam, and if the awaam are slacking in terms of contributing time, efforts and cash, they need to be chastised by the 'ulema. the khulafaa and the sahaba give us an excellent role model for it.

we need to be objective oriented, the objective being safeguarding and advancing Sunni-ism and Sunni knowledge-base (not just mehfils of Giyarwin Sharif and na't khwani - they're excellent but as posters on this thread suggested, we won't be able to have them eventually if we don't have the knowledge-base to back them up),

without bringing any nafs into it and be blunt and firm about it. diplomacy, moral vanity and pretentiousness each need to be triple divorced and replaced with the gutsy objective-orientedness, hikmah and resolve that is the legacy of the sahaba, ridwan-Allahi 'alaihim ajma'een.

and you're right, words are terribly cheap, be it for anyone.

may Allah grant us all tawfiq for 'amal


أَسْتَغْفِرُ اللهَ مِنْ قَوْلٍ بِلاَ عَمَلٍ
لَّقَدْ نَسَبْتُ ِبهِ نَسْلاً لِّذِي عُقُمِ

أَمَرْتُكَ الْخَيْرَ لـٰكِن مَّا ائْتَمَرْتُ بِهِ
َومَا اسْتَقَمْتُ فَمَا قَوْلِي لَكَ اسْتَقِمِ

وَلاَ تَزَوَّدْتُّ قَبْلَ الْمَوْتِ نَافِلَةً
وَلَمْ أُصَلِّ سِوٰى فَرْضٍ وَّلَمْ أَصُمِ

 

I was trying to be polite!

The only solution here is to do what our elders did when they arrived in this country. We have to give our time (and our cash!) and build up little projects ourselves (if they could give their time when returning from 12-14 hour factory shifts then surely we can too). Insha'Allah Allah helps those who help themselves. We have to stop using the excuse of being 'busy' and start committing to the cause.

It is the only solution I'm afraid. The longer we bitch and moan about what the 'others' are doing the further behind we fall and more dire the situation becomes.

 

Sidi AbdalQadir,

Please don't speak the truth so blatantly! You run the risk of being deeply unpopular!

Agree about DI too -- those brothers are amazing. May Allah raise the rank of Ameer e Ahle Sunnat Mawlana Ilyas Qadri further! amen.

I was watching Madani Channel last night and Hazrat Sahib was speaking about ostentation and hunger-for-dunya amongst some naat-khaans. I have been watching that channel a lot in Ramadan and Hazrat Sahib really is unique and his style is so simple and direct.

May Allah protect him!

 

it's all about connecting with people and working at grassroots level.

gustakhi mu'aaf but:

MOST Sunni 'ulema KNOWINGLY don't want to do either.

they don't want to connect with people because they enjoy being treated like sultans by the few people who can't ask any intelligent question on deen. Allah forbid should they ever be considered accountable Muslims with a responsibility to the masses. it is 100% nafsanic with ZERO concern for the future spread of Sunniyat.

there is very little difference between desi politicians and a good number of our scholars in present times (not that it is much different in other parts of the Muslim world)

the grassroots level thing doesn't happen because it requires the said connection with the masses.

the hasad and insecurity of a desi maulvi at anyone who can speak English (in case of the west) and/or connect with the masses (both in west as well as desiland) is open for all to see.

so yah, the easiest way out then is to trash the wahabis and have as much murgha and halwa at the various gatherings etc. point this out and you're a closet wahabi/deobandi.

who needs religious knowledge and feeling the pulse of the youth and connecting with them when you have the said gatherings? we got wahabis to take care of all that - teaching pronunciation and tajweed, classes of 'aqidah and fiqh, masaail for living in the west and mua'malaat with kafirs (when was the last time you saw a desi Sunni maulvi give a press conference in English against racism and discrimination), the list just goes on.

the only people I see working with desi Sunni youth at grassroots level is Dawate Islami. insha Allah more English speaking brothers join it and help spread its influence.

 

I daresay they already have!

It's all about empowering youth........until our respected ulema ACTUALLY realise it's not about 'the kursi', I fear the worst!

You only need to look around and see how the Deos are infiltrating our Masajids under the banner of Ahle Sunnah Wal Jamaah......but sadly, our elders wish to remain 'blindfolded'??

Allah Knows Best!

 

It is all about creating a culture of involvement (am sure no youngster 'wants to take over!'). It is because the youngsters don't feel involved that they go elsewhere and get entrapped by the 'other' crowd who are appealing to them by giving them a voice and sense of being.
To be honest all most UK youngsters want is an English Speaking Imam (as Aqdas elaborates in the original post). If they don't get that in 'our' masjids then the stark reality is that they will go (or have already gone a long time back) elsewhere no matter how many Mawlids, Naat Conferences, Ghiyarween Shareef etc we hold. And worse still they will go to Peace TV in droves!

 

Its all good wanting the youth to come forward. But in reality there ain't many who will its mainly all talk.

I rather have a elder than a sullah kulli youngster. Lets create the kattar sunnis in the youth and then bring them forward.

 

well i've just cum bak from a khatam quran prog in arguably the most expensiv mosque in the uk situated in bradford and feel embarassed at the situation were in. There was a massive youth turnout but the time was spent praising the founder of the organisation and appealing for funds to build a boundary wall.the youth find this off putting and easily fall prey to the deviants,the money spent building this mosque could hav been better served in forming an institute creating imams but instead we hav building which is only populated on the big nights ,its simply dire

 

There is a Jamia-tul-madina in Birmingham - there are british born brothers (i dont know how many) living there studying full time. I think parents should encourage their children to go and study in places like Pakistan etc and become alims and come back and take the responsibility to teach others. I dont see any other way around it. I know two Islamic brothers from UK, one from Birmingham and the other from Accrington - Maulana Rashid Attari Al Madani (accrington) and Maulana Qamar Attari Al Madani (Birmingham) who went and studied at a branch of Jamia tul Madina in Karachi and MashAllah they were there for upto 8 years. Maulana Rashid is teaching Dars Nizami in accrington and Maulana Qamar was teaching in Birmingham, Maulana Qamar is now back in Pakistan, he is going to do Takhasus Fil Fiqh, His Dars Nizami classes have been taken over by another graduate of Jamia tul Madina who has been sent from Pakistan.

 

The situation will not change until our elders realise there is a problem. Sad reality is that 99% of our Sunni masjids will not talk to youngsters let alone do anything to help them. They live in this land of denial where they believe their status quo will remain forever and they are "delivering a quality service" for the community. Allah bless them, they have done their bit but they have to allow the youth to take them to the next level....else the reality is that no real Sunnis will be left and all the youth will be Deobandised without realising it.

 

howz Dawate Islami going about with things in the UK in terms of training of imams?

 

Obviously this is a major problem which needs to be addressed through long term planning. One of the biggest hurdles in recruiting students to become Imams in the UK is finance. Committees still sthink that ₤150 is an acceptable weekly wage - no young person is going to be attracted with that sort of pay.

One short term solution and while Imams are being trained and educated in the UK is to find the brightest students in India/Pakistan who have already graduated and putthem on an intensive 12 month English course and then bring them here and enrol them in a college here while they work. If this is done with 21-25 year olds it will pay dividends.