Attributing Zamaan, Makaan, Jism and Jihah to Allah

Discussion in 'Aqidah/Kalam' started by qattarridawi, Feb 9, 2015.

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  1. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    this fatwa is a clear refutation of omar achravi

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  2. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    Fatawa Razawiyyah vol 14- page 618 (Nizamiyyah Ed). read the entire fatwa in the attached pdf.


    Attached Files:

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  3. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    He did not give any single reference from the aqidah books on his pov- which is certainly a bid'ah, neither did he provide tafaasir of the verses he quoted from the elder scholars.

    He said that there is no proof that the aqidah of being everywhere is denied in books, which is totally incorrect; ulama clearly rejected the aqidah of affirming the time and space for Allah Subhanu wa Ta'ala; being above the throne, in the sky, in the heavens, on the earth, or everywhere, all of these words and phrases affirm space.

    Also, the rule of something not forbidden applies in fiqh matters, not in the Aqidah, there should be authentic proofs from Quran, Sunnah, and Ijma'a (and rational proof) for something to be accepted as aqidah. He, instead of proclaiming that it is not denied anywhere (which is nevertheless a false statement), should have provided explicit statements from the books (aqidah, tafsir, hadith shuruhat) if fuqaha and mutakallimeen have stated it (that is Allah Ta'ala is present everywhere); is there any quote from early scholars?

    as for the Quranic verses and prophetic narrations he quoted, a quick glance over the tafaasir and hadith explanations is enough to reject his deviant belief.

    His belief is not only unproven naqlan, but it also has no bases aqlan because it is rationally impossible for anything to be confined in space and to be free from it at the same time (in fact, Allah Ta'ala is exalted from being confined within His creation, and a body cannot be free from space at any time). Where was He Subhanu wa Ta'ala when NOTHING was created? then why does he (tauqir sahib) need to prove that Allah Ta'ala is everywhere? is it wajib upon Him Subhanu wa Ta'la or is it mumkin from Him Subhanu wa Ta'ala to be everywhere? if it is wajib then He Subhanu wa Ta'ala is not mustaghni from His creation, and how did He Subhanu wa Ta'ala exist prior to His creation? and if it is mumkin then you affirm that Allah Ta'ala undergoes changes (al-iy'azu billah).

    for us, i.e. ahlussunah wal'jama'ah, it is impossible (mustah'il) for Allah Ta'ala to be present in space or time because it is His creation, and he is mustaghni from everyting.
  4. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

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  5. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    and people get offended that we harshly refute such juhala.

    though he started well, he fell into sophistry and saying words and words as if they mean something.
    and still the guy needs to learn a lot. (appears he been visiting our site).

    incredibly stupid and self-contradictory.
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  6. Brother Barry

    Brother Barry Veteran

    He's up for dishing out Christmas presents aswell. That was a reply from him to a question on a post he put up about Christmas. Guy should just get a job at a cathedral or something. Muslims can definitely do without clowns like him.

    Attached Files:

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  7. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    monkey-brain is back.
  8. Ibn Hadi

    Ibn Hadi Ya Ghaus e Azam Dastageer

    Astaghfirullah. It's really a shame that many Arab scholars aren't aware of the reality of Deoband. I think these Deobandis are more dangerous than regular Wahhabis.

    At least a Wahhabi is open about his belief. But Deobandis claim to be Maturidi, Hanafi, Sufi.

    May Allah protect us.
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  9. sunni_porter

    sunni_porter Well-Known Member

    See here:
    "There is a third path which a group of the predecessors took, and al-Hafiz al-Dhahabi, ‘Allamah Ibn Taymiyyah and his student Ibn al-Qayyim (Allah Most High have mercy on them) preferred, and it is that the intended meaning of “finger” is its literal sense (ma’naha l-haqiqiyyah) but it is an attribute of Allah (Most High), is not a limb and is not like the fingers of creation, rather its kayfiyya (modality) is unknown."
  10. sunni_porter

    sunni_porter Well-Known Member

    ibn adam deobandi states here the following:

    "As for the texts describing Allah to be in the heavens/sky and above His Throne – which are the real point of contention, and apparently go against the above core belief in Allah’s transcendence – one may adopt any of the following positions; and all of them are valid positions and none of them can be considered outright deviation:

    a) Consigning their meanings and details completely to the knowledge of Allah. This position, known as tafwid, was chosen by the majority of early scholars (salaf), and by far the best and safest approach.

    b) Affirming their literal meanings (tathbit) – with emphatic rejection of a similitude between Allah and His creation – and then consigning the modality (kayfiyya) of such texts to the knowledge of Allah. This position, chosen by scholars such as Imam Ibn Taymiya, can be risky for an average believer.

    c) Interpreting such texts figuratively in a manner that befits Allah. This is known as ta’wil, and was chosen by some later scholars.

    He does not realize that affirming the literal meaning and consigning modality is the same as tashbih. In the following paragraph he states that Taqi Usmani has the same position.
  11. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    JazakAllah Khair
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  12. sunni_92

    sunni_92 New Member

    OK sorry brother, my Bad!

    Advice; Try using the 'Search' button, it has a powerful built in search which can find kew words on subjects you may be confused about.

    In the other shab e baraat thread you wanted answers for 15th Shabaan fast; I've just done a search and the hadiths can easily be found.

    If you've searched and genuinely didn't find an answer, then of course you can ask; it saves a lot of peoples time and effort if we all used the 'Search' function.

    Hope that makes sense brother. Forgive me if you feel I've offended you; this advice if for me and then for everyone else who visits.
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  13. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    I cannot, my parents, family, everyone I know and am around are Salafi, they take me to their friends to explain things to me and this is what they say and I am unable to reply so I ask on here for answers.
  14. sunni_92

    sunni_92 New Member

    Brother Umar99, you need to ignore these salafis and shun their company; you will have 1000 questions that need answering!

    Prophetic advice is to abandon the company of the people of biddah.

    Regarding Imam Ashari and the so called book 'Al-Ibaanah' have a look at this link from GF Haddad.

    (Scroll half way down until you find the Title - The Corrupt Text of al-Ash`ari's al-Ibana)
  15. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    One "Salafi" said to me today " We do not believe Allah is in a Makan as Makaan is only present in the khalq but Allah is above the khalq and so makaan cannot apply here. We believe Allah is above the Arsh even when He "descends" to the lowest heaven. Also the 4 imams Rahmatullah Alayhim believe Allah is above the Arsh bi dhatihi. And this is clear from the Hadith of the Jariya . We only take from the ulama such as Ibn Hajar Asqalani and Imam Nawawi Rahmatullah alayhim in matters that agree with Salafus Salih, as for their statements in Aqeedah that contradict them we do not take, they were Asharis yet Imam Abul Hasan Ashari Rahmatullah Alayh retracted from his earlier opinion on turned to the "Salafi manhaj" and wrote a work called Al Ibaanah that was his last word on the matter"
  16. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    Oh subhanAllah, didn't realise before, I follow him on facebook, and that ismaeel de silva, he's dodgy too then
  17. Muhammad786

    Muhammad786 New Member

    Read this entire thread, especially Mawlana AH's refutation of Tauqeer Sahib and you'll be able to answer that question for yourself bhai.
  18. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    He's dodgy?
  19. Muhammad786

    Muhammad786 New Member

    Tauqeer Sahib AKA 'Spirit Priest' still says Allah is everywhere...

    Attached Files:

  20. sunni_porter

    sunni_porter Well-Known Member

    Yes, my post wasn't meant to be a critique :) Was just a comment on me mistakenly thinking Ala Hazrat had translated istiwaa...

    If anything my appreciation for your efforts has grown!

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