Covid vaccine

Discussion in 'Science and Technology' started by Khanah, Feb 13, 2021.

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  1. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    BBC News - Coronavirus: India approves vaccines from Bharat Biotech and Oxford/AstraZeneca
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-55520658
     
  2. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    i expect reliance industries to win a tender to mass produce covid vaccines in the somewhat near future. right now in modi's india, i wouldn't trust their claims on their own gowmutr, let alone a life-saving vaccine!

    no idea who you refer to, but are they mufakkir of walthamstow's mureeds? or wahabis? internationally, the wahabis also circulate some conspiracy theories from the US bible belt. what about the far right of uk/europe? are they also skeptical generally speaking, like in the usa?
     
  3. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    I am not disputing/fearing reaction to drug (as long as it is mild). My point is that the standard level of rigour/diligence in testing and approval is missing, which makes the efficacy suspect and adverse effects largely unknown.

    ... and then the vaccine race among pharma companies and countries (esp. China, Russia, India etc. which are agenda driven and lack scientific independence). Most third-world countries are just piggy-backing early approvals in other advanced nations.

    Most of the vaccine technologies being applied in this case are not completely unproven or untested. These may well work. Or they just may not. Being at the end of the queue is a time-honoured hedging or risk-mitigation strategy!
     
  4. faqir

    faqir Veteran

    there can and will be reactions to any drug - someone could die from a nurofen tablet. these anecdotes don't prove anything. anyway at least to my knowledge the vaccine remains voluntary - if you wish to wait or avoid it then that's not a problem. personally I would give it to my elderly relatives as soon as they qualify. tbh what I find more annoying is the awful conspiracy theory videos circulating on WhatsApp - mainly from some dodgy brothers north of London ;-)
     
  5. shahnawazgm

    shahnawazgm Veteran

    Personally I will wait until more data is gathered from the masses that take the vaccine. There have been a few reports from scientists (not in the main steam media news for obvious reasons) who themselves are sceptical as the vaccine has been rushed, bypassing thorough testing on animals to see the side effects. Not to mention the 'political and commercial' interests in getting something out so quick.
     
  6. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    Conspiracy theories aside, there is no denying the fact that vaccine approval process has been severely short-circuited (even in the first world countries). Faucci alluded to how the UK had taken short-cuts.

    In India, Serum Institute, which had been trialing the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine, gagged a volunteer after he alleged severe neurological reaction. Further in the rush to claim credit for "make in India" vaccine, Indian government has approved 2 new vaccines today. I shudder to think how this will all end up (even if one were to ignore mismanagement of logistics, contamination risk, poor infrastructure for administration on mass scale etc.).

    My 2 pence view, unless one needs it urgently, be at the end of the queue.
     
  7. SaadSohail

    SaadSohail Well-Known Member

    Most of the Skepticism from the doctors revolve around the "development" of a vaccine. It is a laborious process. Unlike what we see here. But they don't have much choice, do they?
    Only time could tell, if it really worked out or not!
    There are promising studies indeed. But its still too early to tell.
    Many questions remain to be answered.



     
  8. faqir

    faqir Veteran

    That’s likely fake news. Based on my own personal experience there is some skepticism amongst the health care staff but overall most are keen to get vaccinated.
     
  9. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    @faqir thanks for that. my question was regarding frontline workers/doctors in the UK too being apprehensive of the vaccines like the half of california healthcare workers mentioned in that article? or is that article most likely fake news? (i have no way of telling)
     
  10. faqir

    faqir Veteran

    2 vaccines have been approved in the UK. Not sure if the Moderna one has yet.

    I’ve had covid-19 in March and now I’ve had one of the vaccines walhamudlillah
     
  11. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

  12. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    you hadn't heard of coke giving a positive test result? - https://pledgetimes.com/corona-test...arliament-over-bizarre-politician-experiment/

    are political interests covered under the "lucrative business" aspect you mentioned?

    seriously though, the cynicism of many people, Muslim or not, is at the speed with which the vaccine has been developed.

    it's raising all sorts of questions in people's minds re the disease itself, the analysis and number crunching of the data, lieing or truth telling with statistics, the causes of deaths that may for all intents and purposes be classified as natural were it not for covid, the vaccine development and rollout, the politicization, the whole spiel we've been rightly/wrongly fed etc.

    we'll just have to wait and see another 1-5 yrs how much we were made fools of, or not.

    btw, i do have friends and relatives who got covid and even had breathing difficulties. however, i'm still somewhat apprehensive of the way the pandemic or the data are being handled. Allah knows best.
     
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  13. faqir

    faqir Veteran

    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577

    ultimately though as others have alluded to most medics will put their trust in the experts in the specific fields' appraisal of the data - in our case in the UK this would be the MHRA - you may consider them as the 'fatwa council' ;-)
     
  14. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    I think Khanah has a point - not every practitioner might have invested in evaluating the research results. There's also group-thinking to think about.

    Thirdly, a general observation, when pharma cos are involved in research, and such lucrative business as a "global pandemic" - we can't be sure just how much of it is objectivity and how much benign optimism - especially as ipso facto embarrassing revelations are not unheard of.

    Not trying to scare people away from taking the vaccines, merely that the Muslim community must hold relevant discussions on the topic instead of simply going with the flow - either ways.

    Excuse me if such discussions are already happening among the twitterati - I am not posted about the latest goings-on.
     
  15. faqir

    faqir Veteran

    most half decent doctors are able to appraise the evidence - in this case the results of the Pfizer vaccine have been published in the NEJM and are there for everyone to see. granted there is no long term data available yet but what is there is promising. contrary to khanah's comments usually Doctors don't administer any vaccines - nurses do.
     
  16. Khanah

    Khanah Well-Known Member

    I would add that doctors are not well placed to confirm or dispute what this guy is saying. Doctors are, in a sense, like mechanics. They diagnose based on lists of symptoms they are aware of and provide treatments based on what they have been taught. They have not analysed scientific data themselves for various medicines as this would be impractical, they are reliant on conclusions reached by people in various other scientific fields (like biomedicine, pharmacology, etc) in relation to which treatment is best in which scenario. Therefore asking a doctor for his opinion on the efficacy or safety of a vaccine is asking him to produce an opinion on something that is outside his own specialism--the GP's who are about to administer this vaccine are likely not to have reviewed any of the data that led the regulator to approve of the vaccine in the first place. However, they will have been provided some basic information in order to administer the vaccine properly.

    You should approach an expert in the field of vaccinology for a proper response
     
  17. faqir

    faqir Veteran

    where is his 'peer reviewed research'?
    his claims are not borne out by the evidence
     
  18. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

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