devbandi debates from 100 years

Discussion in 'General Topics' started by AbdalQadir, Jan 7, 2019.

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  1. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

  2. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    tsk..tsk.. just give him ten minutes .. he will prove his point from "hundreds of barelvi books".
  3. Hamza Noor

    Hamza Noor New Member

    Ala Hazrat Imam Ahmed Rida Khan passed away in 1921.
    Ashraf Ali Thanwi died in 1943.
    Rasheed Gangohi died in 1905.
    Khaleel Ambethwi died in 1927.
    Qasim Nanotwi died in 1880 (when Ala Hazrat was 24 years old)
    Anwar Shah Kaashmiri died in 1933.
    Mehmood ul Hasan Deobandi died in 1920
    Suleman Nadwi died in 1953.

    None of these Deobandi elders found any blasphemous texts in the works of Imam Ahmed Rida Khan. Even after Hassam ul Haramain was published, none of these Deobandis claimed that Ala Hazrat has become a kaafir according to his own principles. None of them claimed that he was a Gustakh.
    But an ignorant Usman Deobandi from Bradford realises this after almost a hundred years and comes up with absurd claims.

    If you regard Ala hazrat as Gustakh, so what ruling will you give regarding your elders who regarded him as a muslim?
    Noori likes this.
  4. Hamza Noor

    Hamza Noor New Member

  5. Hamza Noor

    Hamza Noor New Member

  6. Mohamed Shah Qadri

    Mohamed Shah Qadri Active Member

    Deobandi Antics have become more deceiving...this video is utterly shameful...someone has posted Usman Iqbal's dramatic rants and entitled it Usman Iqbal refuted by Asrar Rashid....the channel is listed as "AlaHazrat Network"(which is clearly a fascade).. this in the hopes of getting unsuspecting Sunnis to watch it...
  7. Juwayni

    Juwayni Veteran

    I got this from a brother who was the one "waxing lyrical" about Shaykh Asrar. It seems the deos have their tails between their legs. It was said:

    "*A word on the شرائط المناظرة between Asrar Rasheed Barelwi and Maulana Usman Sahib.*

    A couple of months ago I was warned on this forum to contain myself because I got a bit emotional and almost snapped when a brother here was waxing lyrical about Asrar Rasheed Barelwi. I went ahead and apologized to the brother in private as well.

    Having dispensed with that, I would like to share my take on what went down between Asrar Rasheed Barelwi and Maulana Usman Sahib during the شرائط المناظرة. It saddens me to say that it was quite clear that Maulana Sahib has NOT studied فن المناظرة AT ALL!!! He first agreed to debate in accordance with the principles of رشیدیہ, and a few minutes later Maulana Sahib was very brazenly reluctant to do so. Instead, all Maulana Sahib wanted to do was to attack Ahmad Raza Khan Barelwi. This only shows that Maulana Sahib cannot make distinction between المناظرة and شرائط المناظرة.

    As for the disagreement about the time allocation, Maulana Sahib was very unreasonable for asking for 10 minutes. This shows that Maulana Sahib wanted to give a speech, and not negotiate the شرائط. Brothers, I was CRINGING AND GRINDING MY TEETH! And secondly, it also seemed that someone, whoever gave our Maulana Sahib a pep talk, must have told him to debate Asrar Rasheed Barelwi on the the time allocation which in turn would be two thirds the victory. Well it did not work, did it?

    And when Maulana Sahib was asked how much time he needed, he said, "I want to make مشورہ." Whattttt????? These were not our tableeghi settings; this was Hostile Territory!

    And now I see people on our side, Ahlu-Sunnat-e-Wal-Jama'h-Ahnaf-Deoband, declaring victory, and claiming that Asrar Rasheed Barelwi fled from the مناظرة by using guile or evasive tactics. Wrong! Utterly wrong! There is no doubt that Asrar Rasheed Barelwi is a wily wily individual; but here there was something completely different at play. Truth be told, and I am saying this with gritted teeth, Maulana Sahib lost the مناظرة in the شرائط المناظرة. My God, this has to be a first.

    Please, anyone who is in touch with the Maulana Sahib, Stop him from treading onto the مناظرة fields. He will only do harm to Ahlu-Sunnat-e-Wal-Jama'h-Ahnaf-Deoband.

    But I do not doubt Maulana Sahib's sincerity.

    جزاكم اللہ!"
  8. Ibn Rida Safdar

    Ibn Rida Safdar New Member

    Analysis of Uthman Deobandi's new video- His incoherence and poor intellect: Part 2

    Uthman is not just an incoherent liar but he is also an incompetent and stupid individual who is unfit to debate as seen in the pre-debate meeting. He has a very substandard understanding of the subject of Logic which must be embarrassing for his fraternity.

    It is a common rule in Logic, known to any student of sacred knowledge or even a Xth grade mathematics student, that:

    If an element (o) is not present in a subset (o ∉ A) of another Set (B), it doesn't necessarily imply that the element is also not present in the Super-set (B)."

    For instance,


    A: the set containing 'All men from the USA'
    B: the set containing 'All men'
    o: an element representing a foolish man- Uthman Deobandi

    Clearly, 'A' is a subset of 'B' ie. AB and it is also evident 'o' (Uthman Deobandi) doesn't fall under 'A' (o ∉ A). Does that imply that the element 'o' is also not a part of 'B' (o ∉ B) ie. Uthman Deobandi is a not a man? Definitely not! However, Uthman Deobandi seems to think otherwise:

    He says in the video titled 'The Debate With Asrar Rashid (Maulana Usman's View)' at around 3:44 min:

    I am amazed at the level of stupidity shown by Uthman. Forget a madrasa or a school student, an uneducated villager with a moderate IQ can also spot the fallacy in his argument. Clearly, the appellation 'Barelwi' is employed by a subset (segment) of the 'Worldwide-sunnis'. In fact, Uthman understands this point and claims that deobandis are subset of worldwide Ahlus Sunnah. He mentions in the same video at 11:55 min:

    So, if tomorrow, a sunni scholar from the middle east says that I am not a deobandi, would Mr. Uthman, the deobandi genius, say that hence, being a deobandi is not being a sunni or Ashari? This shows that Uthman is not just mistaken in his aqeedah but is also compromised in his understanding of basic principles of the subject of Logic. Clearly, he must have inherited this from the likes of Gangohi who ruled extra money charged on "money orders" by post office as interest.
    Ahmet Tayfur likes this.
  9. Ibn Rida Safdar

    Ibn Rida Safdar New Member

    Analysis of Uthman Deobandi's new video- His incoherence and poor intellect: Part 1

    Uthman Deobandi has released a video titled 'The Debate With Asrar Rashid (Maulana Usman's View)' in an attempt to to defend his humiliating encounter with Shaykh Asrar Rashid. Honestly, it was painful listening to his childish claims knowing very well that no academic response would come out from his mouth. However, I saw the entire video and will be presenting a few instances to show that Uthman Deobandi is-

    1) A liar and an incoherent individual
    2) A person with a very low IQ and substandard understanding of the subject of Logic

    Uthman Deobandi's Claim no. 1: The debate was to prove Imam Ahmad Rida Khan and Barelwi scholars have committed Kufr and blasphemy in light of their OWN principles. And, Uthman Deobandi has not claimed that the Imam Ahmad Rida Khan and other Barelwi Ulama committed blasphemy or kufr per se.

    At around 1:40 min in the video, Uthman Deobandi says:

    He also says at 10:10 min:

    The claim is a lie. Compare these lies with what he said in his initial video titled 'Call-out to Asrar Rashid'. Uthman Deobandi mentions in this video at 8:40 min:

    In this video, he has repeatedly accused Imam Ahmad Rida Khan and Ulama of Bareilly of blasphemy. He categorically gives the ruling where he labels Imam Ahmad Rida Khan al Barelwi as Gustakh -e-Rasool (SallAllahu ala Muhammad- SallAllahu alaihi wasallam). He did not just give this ruling but wanted a debate on this very subcject, which he very carefully twisted later on, out of the fear that he would never be able to prove Imam Ahmad Rida Khan al Barelwi (rahimahullah) as a blasphemer after Shaykh Asrar Rashid released a video mentioning the condition that the debate would be judged by Ulama from Arab Lands. This is the Dajl and cunning nature of Uthman Deobandi and he has the audacity to call an objective and unbiased individual like Asrar Rashid as manipulative.

    Uthman Deobandi is a shameless liar and an incoherent individual. Looking at the online comments from some people (claiming to be) from the deobandi sect, it is apparent a lot of people from his side would be feeling embarrassed. I suggest that other deobandi ulama should approach Shaykh Asrar so that a fruitful discussion can take place instead of a drama scene being created by an ignorant fool like Uthman to just score some cheap publicity.

    Further analysis to follow, in-shaa-Allah.
    Ahmet Tayfur and Aqdas like this.
  10. Waqar786

    Waqar786 Veteran

    you keep banging on about how we are scared to let you open our books, so if you are really serious and you really believe that our books contain books of blasphemy then compile a work not dissimilar to 'Hussam ul Haramain'. Get signatures from Arab Sunni scholars or even your akabir like Mufti Taqi and his brother (who already said that he does not consider Brewlis as kafir). and then present it to our scholars. It is childish to go around claiming that our works are full of blasphemy without analysing them properly. No one is going to give you time so you can spout your hatred or reel off countless statements in our books, which you deem blasphemous.

    The way forward is to compile a work or at least write down statements that you have an issue with, so that the statements can be analysed in accordance with the principles mentioned by Shaykh Asrar and the appropriate response can be given. Quoting random statements just reeks of intellectual bankruptcy and an attempt to sway public opinion.

    There wont be a paradigm shift because there are still unanswered questions about the works of your akabir, which need to be included in any future discussion. I listened to the debate between Mufti Aslam Bandyalwi and Uthsman and the latter could not answer the only question/claim that Mufti Sahib raised/made and instead continually went off topic and then had the cheek to say he was not given enough time.

    However, it is high time that responsible learned scholars from both groups sat down and had an objective discussion on the key points of contention, if we are to move forward. Point scoring sideshows and angry videos may create hype and drama but it won't solve issues. Are you interested in sideshows or are you serious in discussing issues objectively?
  11. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    from tareekh zaleel to this guy it seems that their ranks are rippling with stage actors.

    Don't now how "looky" (sic) he is but he sure preforms well as a lion when in his rat hole.

    Does anyone know if he "stoodied" (sic) in some drama school? No, I didn't mean deoband, I meant in the UK, okay?
  12. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

  13. Mohamed Shah Qadri

    Mohamed Shah Qadri Active Member

    These idiots are claiming they won the debate ...the whole Situation is a mess.
  14. Mohamed Shah Qadri

    Mohamed Shah Qadri Active Member

    More clowns in action
  15. Waqar786

    Waqar786 Veteran

    It is better to draw a line under this episode and perhaps in hindsight, it would have been better if Shaykh Asrar did not entertain these upstarts in the first place. They were not interested in a constructive discussion so no benefit in entertaining them.
    The worrying thing is that the misguided are becoming increasingly brazen in their outlandish claims and the public are struggling to see it or even choosing to ignore it. Love the hype and noise.
    A sad state of affairs
    Unbeknown and Nur al Anwar like this.
  16. Mohamed Shah Qadri

    Mohamed Shah Qadri Active Member

    I love jow he says "Molvi Ahmed rida khan Sahib"....its like he unconsciously shows respect ... they all know deep down that their ulema where wrong....sheikh asrar should debate this molvi instead of these students.
  17. Sunni By Nature

    Sunni By Nature Active Member

    Molvi Mumtaz ul-Haq’s response

  18. Mohamed Shah Qadri

    Mohamed Shah Qadri Active Member

    And they pathetically respond
  19. Mohamed Shah Qadri

    Mohamed Shah Qadri Active Member

    Wallahi...uthman iqbal is giving me a headache. ...its not worth debating these ignorant children...
    Unbeknown and AbdalQadir like this.
  20. Mohamed Shah Qadri

    Mohamed Shah Qadri Active Member

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