Dhāt of Allah present in heavens and earth

Discussion in 'Aqidah/Kalam' started by Noori, Jan 24, 2021.

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  1. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

  2. Ghulam Ali

    Ghulam Ali Active Member

    ... which one will be right the accuser or the accused? It will be the accuser.

    clear as day
  3. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    how about keller - their go-to guy for kalam and urdu adab? i wonder what he's up to these days
  4. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    روى ابن حبان (81) ، والبخاري في "التاريخ الكبير" (2907) ، والبزار (2793) عن حذيفة رضي الله عنه قال : قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ : ( إِنَّ مَا أَتَخَوَّفُ عَلَيْكُمْ رَجُلٌ قَرَأَ الْقُرْآنَ حَتَّى إِذَا رُئِيَتْ بَهْجَتُهُ عَلَيْهِ ، وَكَانَ رِدْئًا لِلْإِسْلَامِ ، غَيَّرَهُ إِلَى مَا شَاءَ اللَّهُ ، فَانْسَلَخَ مِنْهُ وَنَبَذَهُ وَرَاءَ ظَهْرِهِ ، وَسَعَى عَلَى جَارِهِ بِالسَّيْفِ ، وَرَمَاهُ بِالشِّرْكِ ) ، قَالَ: قُلْتُ: يَا نَبِيَّ اللَّهِ، أَيُّهُمَا أَوْلَى بِالشِّرْكِ، الْمَرْمِيُّ أَمِ الرَّامِي؟ قَالَ: ( بَلِ الرَّامِي )" .
    قال ابن كثير رحمه الله إِسْنَادٌ جَيِّد ​
  5. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    where are the champions of devband. zameel and ibn adam should translate this in arabic (without khiyanah as is their nature and habit) and tell the arab scholars that this is the true aqidah of devband.

    the ahmaq and jahil who wrote that fatwa claims:

    Allah is mustawee on arsh, yet present everywhere. all the mufassirin admitted defeat* in their attempts to understand the reality of this, and were compelled to say: "Allah knows better what He wished to say by that" (Allahu a'alamu bi muradihi bi dhalik).

    that is only Allah knows the manner in which He is upon the Arsh and how He is present everywhere (lit. every place). we cannot understand the quiddity or the reality of that. Allah being present on arsh and is present everywhere at the same time - we must only believe in this; we must not attempt to understand its reality.

    (* the urdu idiom is: threw down their weapons = admit defeat)

    where the mufassirin said: only Allah knows the real meaning of "istiwa ala arsh".

    the jahil converted it to: "only Allah knows the MANNER in which He is UPON the arsh and everywhere at the same time"
    and for a good measure added "and everywhere at the same time".

    this is the pathetic level of their understanding and they embark upon criticising kanz al iyman.
  6. Abū Dharr

    Abū Dharr New Member

    Attached Files:

  7. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

  8. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator



    1. Is Allah (Glory to Him) present everywhere (lit. every place)?

    2. Is Allah (Glory to Him) present everywhere (lit. every place) at the same time?

    3. Is Allah (glory to Him) present in every thing?



    1. Indeed, yes. Allah taala is every place.

    2. Indeed, yes. He is present in every place at the same time.

    3. Allah ta'ala exists (or present / mawjud) in every thing.

    All of this is proven from Quranic verses.

    === end of fatwa from devband.

    laa Hawla wa laa quwwata illa billah.

    why do they not shut down their madrasa and go till the fields - at least, it will be of some benefit. the juhala are a prime example of "aamilatun naaSibatun"

    their basic aqidah about Allah ta'ala is polytheistic and they have the temerity to accuse us of shirk for merely doing tawassul.

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  9. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator


    devbandi buniyadi aqaid se jaahil.

    so what is the difference between the devbandi and the hindu who thinks that god is present in his idols?

    inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'un.

    someone show this to sayid foudeh and some others who think deos are also sunnis.
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2021
  10. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Devband fatwa.

  11. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    a couple more quotes on the hukm regarding the utterer of such a statement:

  12. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator


    amr's saying: "there is no place (makaan) or corner (gosha) such that the dhat (Essence) of Allah is not present in it" is a statement of disbelief. (kalimah e kufr) because by this statement the person establishes a place for Allah. [which is kufr]
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  13. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    jahil e mutlaq.

    it is with this pathetic jahl that the pipsqueak seeks to fault kanz. hah. gireyban mein jhank kar dekho.

    if this is gangohi's statement - it is clear. gangohi thanawi sab buniyadi aqaiyid se jaahil the.
    tuff hai is ilmi liyaqat par. no wonder they held strange beliefs.

    zameel, will now come out of the woodworks and try to prove black as white.

    ha ha. i reached 7.56 where he elucidates asharr-fiyli thanawi's "ulum". what a travesty!
    not surprised because this knowledge is noor and devbandis are deprived of nur.

    you can witness it yourself in this video!

    even a basic concept is befuddled and thanawi - as is the wont of devbandis - converts 'dhat' to 'jism' and this lot thinks it is a clever thing.

    that is according to thanawi: "people think that by dhat, it means the 'jism' of Allah is in every place" - while the speaker marvels at thanawi's explanation, i marvel at the skill of using multiple fallacies: burning the strawman and throwing a red herring at the same time.

    who said that by dhat it means 'jism' of Allah? (al iyadhu billah)?
    when you say that dhat is *in every place* are you not saying that the dhat exists in a place and that entails rest of the objections?

    simply told in bad' al-amali: "wa dhatan an jihati's sitti khaali" kicks thanawi's smart-alecky nukta into the dustbin of heresy and kufr where it belongs.

    laa Hawla wa laa quwwata illa billah.

    devbandiyo! ab to hosh mein aao. follow someone who KNOWS his kalam (i.e. alahazrat imam ahmad rida khan - for instance read his 'qawariy al-qahhar' / zarb e qahhari and burn in envy for the command he has on the subject which your entire gang of "akabirs" can't hold a candle to) or keep following a jahil like thanawi whose basic aqidah is shaky.

    no wonder, they couldn't wrap their pathetic heads about a simple thing as: "qudrat on mumkinaat; precludes muhalaat".

    while the anthropomorphist wahabi says: "on the arsh" - these morons believe that Allah is "on arsh as well as every where".

    afsos. the arabic of thanawi again ends with self-contradictory: "he is free from being in ANY makaan/place!"

    makaan se bhi paak hai, magar biz zaat makaan mein hai. the only thing to add to anything is a the magic word: "bilaa kayf". you can even say that this devbandi's god resides in the idol "bilaa kayf". al-iyadhu billah.

    تعالى الله علوا كبيرا

    nas'aluAllah al-aafiyah.
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2021
  14. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    I found these sudani ulama refuting wahabiyyah very nicely, they appear to be very barailvish but in sudan. :)
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  15. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

  16. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    تعالى الله علوا كبيرا
    Umar99 likes this.
  17. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    confused like umar achravi while he refuses that Allah Ta'ala is in a place or any place, watch the next video too. very disgusting examples, astaghfirullah

  18. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Ilyas Ghumman talks about the Dhat of Allah being everywhere @9m30s. He's the biggest devbandi munazir of Pakistan.

  19. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    imam abu manSur maturidi in the tafsir of the verse says:

    abu mu'adh said: muqatil ibn sulayman said: {O musa} he says: indeed the light which you have seen {I am Allah}.
    [imam maturidi:] this is muHal [impossible] for many reasons:

    imam maturidi then presents four reasons that analyse the sentence structure and usage to prove that muqatil's interpretation is incorrect and that is muHal.

    muqatil was a famous mufassir, but has been criticised for being a mushabbih - bearing anthropomorphic beliefs.

    in siyar a'alam al-nubala, dhahabi quotes imam azam thus:

    imam abu hanifah said: two filthy ideas came to us from the east: jahm [ibn safwan] is a rejector of attributes [mu'aTTil] and muqatil has anthropomorphic explanations [mushabbih].

    the astute reader will notice that even muqatil's anthropomorphic descriptions were concerning attributes and in this case he simply said "the communication issued from the light said: i am Allah".

    even HE did not insist that Allah ta'ala was present on the earth bi'dh dhat - with His Essence.
    al iyadhu billah.
    Last edited: May 15, 2020
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  20. RazaRaza

    RazaRaza New Member

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