Did the Prophet ﷺ see Allāh in the Dunyā?

Discussion in 'Aqidah/Kalam' started by Ahlesaabiqoon, Jan 18, 2025.

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  1. Mohammed Nawaz

    Mohammed Nawaz Corrections are always welcomed with appreciation

    It truly boggles the mind how these individuals, who go to great lengths in attributing tajsīm qualities to Allah, suddenly demand kathai daleel when it comes to elevating the status of our beloved Prophet ﷺ.

    Even when presented with clear and sound evidence, they find new excuses to evade acceptance. This isn't just theological inconsistency, it reveals a deep hypocrisy.

    Their apparent discomfort with expressions of love for the Prophet ﷺ and the Awliya exposes the diseases in their hearts. It’s not just about differing opinions!
    it’s their unwillingness to let the light of the Prophet’s ﷺ grandeur enter their narrow worldview.

    Even in their speech and dawah, their neglect of the Rasulallah ﷺ is glaring. I once watched a so called scholar from their ranks deliver a tafsir on Surah ad-Duha. Remarkably, he avoided mentioning the Prophet ﷺ even once. Instead, he diverted the discussion to general themes of hope in Allah’s help, sidestepping the central focus of the surah.


    This reflects a deliberate attempt to downplay the Prophet’s ﷺ role in Islam. Their ideology thrives on severing the deep spiritual connection between Muslims and the Prophet ﷺ, promoting a sterile and impersonal understanding of faith.

    For them, tawhid is stripped of its beauty, devoid of the indispensable wasilah of the Sarkar, who is the most beloved to Allah.
    At its core, this attitude stems from kibr and hasad. They cannot bear to see the Prophet ﷺ honored and revered in the way he deserves.
    They cling to a false sense of superiority, believing they are safeguarding tawhid, when in reality, they are undermining the very essence of it.

    May Allah protect us from such diseases of the heart. True iman is inseparable from love for the Prophet ﷺ. There is no concept of true faith without him at its center.

    Allahu al-Musta‘an.
     
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  2. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    we warned you.

    the wahabis and salafis have made up their mind. and even if you quote miaw or ibn taymiyyah, they will refuse to believe.

    sub'HanAllah! then why is ta'wil an issue when things like istiwaa or ayn or nuzul etc are concerned?

    which explicit nass allows this and disallows that?
     
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  3. Ahlesaabiqoon

    Ahlesaabiqoon Active Member

    He said they (so-called salafīs) do not always have an issue with ta'wīl, hence there is nothing wrong with saying Allāh is light in a metaphorical sense, but if you saw Allāh literally and said you saw light, this would be a contradiction. Honestly, there's no point to this. I dropped the discussion.
     
  4. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    agreed.

    he saw "nuur" - and al-nuur is the Divine Name of Allah ta'ala. so let us not translate it to light.

    secondly, the poor idiot didn't realise that he fell into ta'wil! and inevitably, he had to follow ash'ari that he so despises!

    how does he translate: "Allahu nuuru's samawati wa'l arD'?

    if he says 'light' he falls into tashbeeh. if he says "Creator of light", he becomes an ashari.
     
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  5. Ahlesaabiqoon

    Ahlesaabiqoon Active Member

    He asked if Allāh is light or the Creator of light. He said, "If you say He is light, then you fall into tashbeeh." and "If you say He is the Creator of light, then He saw the veil of Allāh and not Allāh Himself." He said since Allāh is the Creator of light, therefore, when He said He saw light, He was not talking about Allāh.
     
  6. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    so according to this wahabi, it is impossible to see Allah taala? just like the mutazili belief?

    if it is not impossible, then why is ta'wil needed?

    besides hadith imams like imam nawawi and prior to him imam ahmad have affirmed ru'yah.

    who said that it is "explicit"? ulama have debated what it actually meant, and some interpreting it to mean a question that negates ru'yah. but it is not definitive.

    أنى can be read as "anna" - a question; OR "anni" - indeed, i saw. nurun anni araah.

    ---

    see mirqat 10/325

    mirqat v10p325.png

    tibi said: he meant: this was not an interrogative that implies negation; rather it is a descriptive which necessitates affirmation [iyjaab]. that is, "it was Light that i saw".

    ====
    so ta'wil is not needed.
     
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  7. Ahlesaabiqoon

    Ahlesaabiqoon Active Member

    He replied that a ta'wil is needed because the Prophet ﷺ explicitly said, "How could I see him," in Sahīh Muslim.
     
  8. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    they hold on to this hadith by their molar teeth when they want to sell their tajseem and tashbeeh! try it with them if you don't believe me @Ahlesaabiqoon

    negate bodily attributes and creation's attributes and their tajseem and tashbeeh, you will see them screaming this hadith like there's no tomorrow to peddle their fasiq aqidah!

    good question
     
  9. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    the most important aspects to note here are glossed over by those who have made up their mind to reject ru'yah.

    1. is it impossible to see Allah ta'ala?
    if you say 'yes', you join the mu'tizalah - it is the mu'tazilah who deny that Allah ta'ala can be seen. the aqidah of ahl al-sunnah is that we will see Allah ta'ala in jannah, as we learn from many sahih hadith.

    2. seeing in akhirah and not in dunya.
    here, some people may say that those hadith refer to the aakhirah and not in this world.
    our response is:

    a) which explicit naSS says that it is not possible in this world?
    if you say, that the verse - laa tudrikuhu'l abSar - is proof. we ask, where is the specification that it is fi'd dunya. because if you keep it absolute, then you go back to #1 - it is impossible to see Him at all. which, is the mutazili aqidah and this is their proof.

    b) if it was impossible, then sayyiduna musa alayhis salam would not ask for ru'yah / Divine Vision.
    in surah 7:143 sayyiduna musa alayhis salam after being blessed with hearing Divine Speech says, "show me, i want to see You"

    وَلَمَّا جَاۤءَ مُوسَىٰ لِمِیقَـٰتِنَا وَكَلَّمَهُۥ رَبُّهُۥ قَالَ رَبِّ أَرِنِیۤ أَنظُرۡ إِلَیۡكَۚ

    sayyiduna musa alayhis salam is a nabiy. it is impossible/muHal that he would request Allah ta'ala to give him something which is impossible in the first place! this would imply (al-iyadhu billah) on the part of an ulu'l azm nabi, ignorance of aqidah about Allah ta'ala that: He cannot be seen in this world.

    c) if it was impossible, then why did Allah ta'ala say: "you will not see me". instead of saying: "I cannot be seen" or "it is impossible for anyone to see me in this world." notice the continuation of the above aayah:
    قَالَ لَن تَرَىٰنِی
    3. everyone [i.e. Muslims] will see Allah in aakhirah by sahih hadith.
    so why is it difficult to accept that as a miraculous occurrence and a special attribute of RasulAllah sallALlahu alayhi wa sallam in this world? something that even ordinary muslims will be given - is it that incredible to accept that it was given to sayyidu'l awwalin wa'l aakhirin?

    besides, these are not just emotional arguments. rather, there are hadith and the aayat of surah al-najm which proclaim that he "saw".

    ---
    thus, when it is established that it is not impossible to see Allah ta'ala in this world, where is the need to do ta'wil of explicit hadith? ta'wil is done only when one has to reconcile an aayah or hadith, when it outwardly conflicts with established aqidah. such as ta'wil of istiwaa, to avoid anthropomorphic descriptions.

    Allah ta'ala knows best.

    [there is an extended endnote in upcoming bahar v.1 on this issue.]
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2025
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  10. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    if it is that important for you to convince him, you can waste your time. there are better things to do. we told you that there are four opinions - and the marfuu hadith: "ra'aytu rabbi." "i saw my Lord Almighty" (see alahazrat's risalah linked).

    now if you claim "ra'aytu" - i saw - also has to be accompanied with "bi ayni ra'asi" to qualify as explicit daleel, you need to ask him how else does anyone "see"? with their hands?

    "see" is explicit enough and literal. and 'he saw with his heart' is a ta'wil.

    this is a sahih hadith, musnad ahmad - all are sahih narrators.

    msnd n2580.png

    why do you have to do ta'wil here?

    ====
    the narrations in tirmidhi - which are NOT sahih, but hasan:

    tirmidhi 2790.png

    as for the explanation: "he ﷺ saw with his heart" - that is not the part of the marfuu hadith. it is an explanation/interpretation of the sahabi - of the ayah, the heart did not belie what it saw; as it implies that the heart saw. and going by your methodology, why should a sahih hadith - with explicit words - be passed over for a hasan narration (i.e., which says: 'with his ﷺ heart')?

    it is therefore ulama explain that he ﷺ saw twice - once by the eyes, and once by the heart. which is also the explanation of the aayah that he ﷺ saw twice.

    ----
    Allah ta'ala knows best.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2025
  11. Ahlesaabiqoon

    Ahlesaabiqoon Active Member

    The person is just asking for a sahih reference from the sahabah explictly mentioning that the Prophet ﷺ saw Allāh with his eyes. He accepts the views that Allāh was not seen or was seen by the heart, but he wants just this reference to finally convince him that the Sahabah did in fact have this view
     
  12. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    This is Alahazrat's book on divine vision from Shaykh Abu Hasan's excellent ridawi.org

    Alahazrat did mention 4 marfu'u hadith that RasulAllah ﷺ saw Allah ta'ala.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 19, 2025
  13. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

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  14. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    those who do not want to believe can continue to do so. no amount of "evidence" will convince them otherwise.

    but the question you should ask them is why is it contested? is it impossible? and what proof is there for its being impossible?
     
  15. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    whose bukhari lessons?

    this is the most irritating thing about salafis and salafi-induced or salafi-threatened approach.

    this is the approach similar to the yahood telling musa alayhis salam:

    s2v55.png
    "we will not believe you until we see Allah manifestly"

    or

    s21v25.png

    why do the angels not come down to us or we see our Lord?
    ===

    the point is that salafis will ask for proof, and only explicit aayah or nass as proof. if someone gives them an explicit hadith, they will then ask for sahih hadith, and then muttafaq alayh, and then mutawatir. until you reach a dead end that will justify their adopted position: "hah! you don't have proof."

    those who deny ru'yah citing the sahih hadith of bukhari and muslim via sayyidah ayishah raDi'Allahu anhaa, should also clarify that these reports are not marfuu.

    ---
    we have already stated that there are four positions of salaf/khalaf. and all of these are positions of ahl al-sunnah.

    Allah ta'ala knows best.
     
  16. Mohammed Nawaz

    Mohammed Nawaz Corrections are always welcomed with appreciation

    Imam al-Bajuri says,

    “The preponderant opinion in the eyes of most of the scholars is that [the Messenger, Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him] saw his Lord [Glorified and Most High] with the two eyes of his head while they were fixed in their place- as opposed to those who claimed that [his two eyes] were moved to his heart – by the [affirmative] report of Ibn Abbas and other Companions (رضي الله عنه)."

    [Tuhfa al-Murid ‘ala Jawhara al-Tawhid]

    Also denying the vision of Allah Ta’ala does not lead to misguidance because scholars differ on this matter.
     
  17. Mohammed Nawaz

    Mohammed Nawaz Corrections are always welcomed with appreciation

    The hadith of Sayyidah Aisha Siddiqah (رضي الله عنه) is absolutely authentic and is recorded in Bukhari. It is indeed a valid hadith. However, the issue arises when we consider the narration of Hazrat Ibn Abbas (رضي الله عنه), who reports that the Noble Prophet ﷺ saw Allah, the Exalted, with his physical eyes. When a companion narrates something attributed to the Prophet ﷺ, it holds great weight.

    On the other hand, what Sayyidah Aisha Siddiqah (رضي الله عنه) said is not attributed directly to the Prophet ﷺ; rather, it is her personal opinion.
    This is evident because she further presented a Qur’anic verse for support, stating that Allah says,

    "No vision can grasp Him, but He grasps all vision." (Surah Al-An’am: 103)


    This indicates that if Sayyidah Aisha Siddiqah (رضي الله عنه) had heard directly from the Prophet ﷺ that he denied seeing Allah with his physical eyes, she would have clearly attributed her statement to him, saying, “I heard the Prophet ﷺ say that whoever claims I saw Allah with my physical eyes has fabricated a lie against me.”

    Instead, she used her own reasoning, deducing from the Qur’anic verse, and exercised her ijtihad to reach this conclusion.

    On the other hand, Hazrat Ibn Abbas (رضي الله عنه) is not presenting his own reasoning but is directly narrating what he heard from the Prophet ﷺ. Since he did not use any independent reasoning, his statement carries the implication that he directly heard it from the Prophet ﷺ. When two companions’ statements appear to conflict, where one directly attributes their statement to the Prophet ﷺ and the other presents a personal opinion, we prioritize the companion who directly narrates from the Prophet ﷺ.

    This is why scholars have written that the opinion of Sayyidah Aisha Siddiqah (RA) is respected as her personal view. However, the narration of Hazrat Ibn Abbas (RA) takes precedence, and it is acceptable to believe that the Noble Prophet ﷺ saw Allah, the Exalted, with his physical eyes.

    Furthermore, this is not impossible. If you refer to Bukhari, there is a hadith mentioned in my Bukhari lessons as well

    The Noble Prophet ﷺ once discussed with the companions whether they would see their Lord. The companions asked, “O Messenger of Allah, will we see our Lord?” The Prophet ﷺ replied, “Tell me, if there is a full moon on a clear night with no clouds, would you have any difficulty seeing it?” They replied, “No.” He then asked, “If the sun is out during the day without any clouds, would you have any difficulty seeing it?” They replied, “No.” The Prophet ﷺ then said, “Similarly, you will see your Lord on the Day of Judgment.”

    When you examine these other ahadith together, it becomes clear that it is not impossible to see Allah with physical eyes. Yes, this is only possible by Allah’s will. No human has the power to perceive Allah with their natural abilities. However, when Allah grants strength to the eyes or manifests Himself in such a manner that does not overwhelm them, it becomes possible to see Him.

    This is similar to how, on the Day of Judgment, even ordinary believers will see Allah. If this is possible for them, then surely it is not beyond belief that the Noble Prophet ﷺ could have seen Allah in this world. Since this is explicitly narrated in authentic ahadith, particularly by Hazrat Ibn Abbas (رضي الله عنه), there is no reason to doubt or deny it.

    Also we can reconcile Quranic aya by just saying there was indeed a vision where the essence of Allah was not encompassed, but the vision still occurred.

    Allah ta'ala knows best.
     
  18. Ahlesaabiqoon

    Ahlesaabiqoon Active Member

    anything more explicit? This is because some people will say that what is meant by seeing His Lord here means with the heart due to other references. But is there is a reference where Ibn Abbas explicitly says, "with his eyes"?
     
  19. Mohammed Nawaz

    Mohammed Nawaz Corrections are always welcomed with appreciation

    حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ عَمْرِو بْنِ نَبْهَانَ بْنِ صَفْوَانَ الْبَصْرِيُّ الثَّقَفِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى بْنُ كَثِيرٍ الْعَنْبَرِيُّ أَبُو غَسَّانَ، حَدَّثَنَا سَلْمُ بْنُ جَعْفَرٍ، عَنِ الْحَكَمِ بْنِ أَبَانَ، عَنْ عِكْرِمَةَ، عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ، قَالَ رَأَى مُحَمَّدٌ رَبَّهُ ‏.‏ قُلْتُ أَلَيْسَ اللَّهُ يَقُولُ ‏: ‏ ‏(‏ لا تُدْرِكُهُ الأَبْصَارُ وَهُوَ يُدْرِكُ الأَبْصَارَ ‏)‏ قَالَ وَيْحَكَ ذَاكَ إِذَا تَجَلَّى بِنُورِهِ الَّذِي هُوَ نُورُهُ وَقَدْ رَأَى مُحَمَّدٌ رَبَّهُ مَرَّتَيْنِ ‏.‏ قَالَ أَبُو عِيسَى هَذَا حَدِيثٌ حَسَنٌ غَرِيبٌ مِنْ هَذَا الْوَجْهِ ‏.‏

    Narrated 'Ikrimah: that Ibn 'Abbas said: "Muhammad saw his Lord." I said: "Did Allah not say: No vision can grasp Him, but He grasps all vision (6: 103). He said: "Woe unto you! That is when He manifests His Light. But Muhammad saw his Lord two times."

    Jami` at-Tirmidhi 3279
     
  20. Ahlesaabiqoon

    Ahlesaabiqoon Active Member

    Can I get a reference for the third view that mentions that Ibn Abbas and Anas (may Allāh be pleased with them) said the Prophet ﷺ saw Allāh with his eyes. Some people claim there is no proof for this from the Sahābah.
     

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