ESL woes

Discussion in 'Hanafi Fiqh' started by AbdalQadir, Jun 14, 2025.

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  1. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    yes serious and formal deeni topics need to be presented at a level the awam understands, but maintaining the seriousness and reverence. it's great that we have speakers like Asrar Rashid and Shahid Ali for example, but there is a dire need to groom future speakers well trained in both deen and local language oratory.
     
  2. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    i've seen an Arabic speaker mention the story of Sayyiduna Musa 3alaihis salam and Madyan - in english. this person like most "generalist" Arabs of the times will celebrate Mawlid and cite the Burdah too, and also praise ibn taymiyyah and so on. he is respectful and reasonable when he speaks in Arabic.

    so anyways, when mentioning the narration he says words which were shocking, more or less as follows

    1) "fugitive in Madyan"

    2) "at the time he was not a prophet or a great man (probably intending to say well-known), no one in Madyan knew him"

    3) the father of the 2 maidens "didn't know who this guy is"

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    many issues here

    1. the hukm on a person who speaks in languages not native to him - a common problem in the west, with imams imported from Indonesia, India, Gaza, Turkiye, Pakistan etc... does he have an 3udhr?

    2. languages have evolved beyond repair. even if a person picks up a language to some levels of fluency, he picks up modern spoken forms, 99.9% of which have nothing to do with formality or etiquette, only naked literalism (even for native speakers).

    take "guy" for example - in my own school days, even hindu & christian teachers reprimanded students for saying "guy" for our fathers and grandfathers. these days it's common to hear "my dad's a great guy". people will look at you funny if you say saying "guy" for your father is disrespectful. they will say point blank "no, not at all"

    even for "fugitive" if you explain someone, he will bring out the dictionary definition or something.

    another example of evolution- in primary, we learnt that the child born on sabbath is "bonny and blithe and good and gay". by the time we reached high school, gay meant something else

    3. side issue requiring another hukm - lot of english speakers wahabi or not and/or influenced by wahabis ESL dawah, say "granted prophethood at 40". in fact, some wahabi speakers clearly say "prophethood is generally granted at age 40, with exceptions like Sayyiduna Eisa 3alaihis salam who declared his prophethood in the cradle". even in desi Sunnis, i've never heard someone mention "elane nubuwwat" in translated english (i must've missed such topics and contexts by desi english speakers)
     

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