faqeerkhan's claim of dhahabi's comments on ghunya

Discussion in 'Bickering' started by abu Hasan, Feb 21, 2010.

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  1. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    surely, fk will post his questions here? probably he is busy formatting them.
  2. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    i wanted to point out the bleedingly obvious that arabic is a deep language and a word can have more than one meaning; and that arabic is not a computer language with a very limited context and rigid rules of usage. i wrote a few meanings, and then expanded in a passage to include homophones. only that and nothing more.


    the tábīr[1] above can be described as íbrah[2], which brings ábrah[3] to the mútabir’s[4] eyes; like the úbr-eyed[5] úbr[6] or the ábirah[7]. for the áābir[8], it is enough to know that it is not íbrī [9] but rather considered áābirah [10]; the iýtibār[11] of a shaykh who lived in an áwbar[12] which an áābir[13] reaches after doing úbūr[14] of ábr[15] (which is by the íbr[16]) coming from ádan in yemen[17]. may Allāh táālā grant ábīr[18] for his resting place. it is prudent for those who have done ábar[19]and ábar[20] to say that there is no íbrah[21] for the statements made by the úbr[22] which revels in banātu íbr[23].

    because the íbārah[24] is after all, the tábīr[25] of the áābir’s[26] idea.


    1. tábīr: description

    2. íbrah : al-ájab, strange. pl. íbar

    3. ábrah: tears

    4. mútabir: one who brings evidence from something

    5. úbr-eyed: sad [úbra áynih is the idiom for sadness: “it is seen in his eyes, which causes him to cry”]

    6. úbr: one who has lost her son [thaklā]; bereaved of her son. or a plural of áābir

    7. ábirah: sad woman

    8. áābir: one who observes [an-naziru fi'sh shay]

    9. íbrī: hebrew, language of the jews. also, íbrānī

    10. áābirah: permitted usage; lughatun áābirah.

    11. iýtibār: the state which transports one from knowing that which is observed to that which is not observed. reflection, thought.

    12. áwbar: a place, mawđiý; could be either the name of a place, or the noun meaning: ‘a place’.

    13. áābir: traveler, plural úbbār

    14. úbūr: to cross over

    15. ábr: is a city in yemen by the sea, between zabid and ádan. it is by the sea.

    16. íbr: by the river

    17. so when you go from ádan, crossing [úbūr of] ábr, which is by the seaside [íbr], you reach a place[áwbar] which is zabid. the domicile of the noble imām, murtada al-zabidi.

    18. ábīr: perfume; mixture of perfumes

    19. ábar: one who reflects without voicing his thoughts

    20. ábar: to weigh, as in ábar of the gold: weighing the gold

    21. íbrah: lesson learnt: iýtibāru bimā mađā

    22. úbr : an excess from everything,; group of people (jama'ah mina’n nās); qabīlah.

    23. banātu íbr : false, batil

    24. íbārah : passage, statement

    25. tábīr: explanation

    26. áābir: one who looks into a book and comprehends the meaning (by analysis)

    Allah ta'ala knows best
  3. chisti-raza

    chisti-raza Veteran

    Masha'Allah! Spiritual food for thought!
  4. Sayyidi, may Allah bless you, Habib `Abd al-Qadir was amazing. But wait a minute, what had this got to do with praying behind Wahhabis?

    As for the issue now that you have brought it up, I made mention if it to Abu Hasan and he replied as follows:


    Read the whole thread if you wish:


    I never tried to teach you about the Habaib. I don't call to the Habaib, I call to Allah, Insha Allah. I replied to your accusation of the "closed mentality".

    My opinions about `Aqidah polemics come mainly from the book Ahl as-Sunnah al-Asha`irah which has a Taqridh from Habib `Ali.

    I don't have a personal vandetta against you and I have specified that this discussion be kept `Ilmi before. However, you keep bringing personal maters into question like my "closed club mentality" and me not knowing about the Saadah al-Habaib Radhiyallah `Anhum.

    Until you answer my questions posed earlier I will not post here unless I have to clarify something about my stance. Keep me in your Duas.
  5. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    So you failed the comprehension test?


    You are yet to answer questions posed by Sidi Suleiman (here or here). You haven't managed to explain your pathetic attempt to deceive by shamelessly inserting "only" when there was none.

    Of course, we all know that you will not try to answer any question. You are not the first impostor to arrive here (and will not be the last either). Likes of you have suffered disgrace and either left with tails between their 'wobblie' legs or are still lying low (to crawl back from woodwork every now and then).

    You can enjoy some more airtime to croak (before mods do the needful), while we enjoy your exposure.


    I'm afraid Sidi Suleiman, FK is not the person you can have "ilmi" discussions with. He has no inclination/incentive to engage in any ilmi discussions. Excuse my cynicism, I have seen too many like him.
  6. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    as i told you, nothing is set in stone. if what karim said was not answered then, you can please post them here. and inshaAllah someone will answer.

    is your problem that karim's questions were not answered, or whether *i* did not answer or whether it was not answered ten years ago? if you don't post those questions of yours/karim's here, people will think that you are lying and just escaping with smokescreens. don't give them that opportunity and post your/karim's questions in the refutation section. i insist that you do.

    as for my saying that you were karim, such was the indication; and unlike ibn arabi who categorically stated that he was not ibn adam, you have never made such a confident denial. say it in unambiguous words, and i will not say it anymore. the reason i said is on this very forum, you have multiple IDs. moreover, i have just wondered aloud (like i did in ibn arabi's case) whether this is the case.

    the reason i am persisting with you in this thread is to get rid of you. i tried ignoring your accusations and claims all these years because i didn't deem it necessary to answer you. but this silence has been misinterpreted and has encouraged you to repeat false claims; and it appears that you are now believing them yourself. it is time to call your bluff.

    let it be known to the forum members that has played this hide and seek also in private correspondence and when fk made his accusations and snide remarks in public, i sent him private messages to leave it alone. but apparently he doesn't tire of it, so i am forced to bring this in public.

    wAllahu ta'ala a'alam.
  7. faqeerkhan

    faqeerkhan Guest

    wow ! trying to show off ?
  8. faqeerkhan

    faqeerkhan Guest

    abu hasan previously you said that i was karim abdullah just like you thought ibn arabi is ibn adam al-kawthari. you made such claims before for few other posters. then the excuse you came up for not replying was that, let the ulama do their job. now, the latest you came up with the claim of scans. please the scans don't refute anything which karim abdullah mentioned about barelwi beliefs. the scans are from deobandi books which if you read the other forums mention that they have been misrepresented or mistranslated for takfir purposes. in short, nothing substantial on this thread but cheap attacks and insults which only reflects the adab of the posters.
    Suleimanal or whatever, i have known Shaykh Abdul Qadir Saqqaf may Allah mercy on his soul for many years in person. so please don't try to teach me about yemeni habaaib. they do pray behind wahabis unlike your friends here.
  9. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    the tábīr above can be described as íbrah, which brings ábrah to the mútabir’s eyes; like the úbr-eyed úbr or the ábirah. for the áābir, it is enough to know that it is not íbrī but rather considered áābirah; the iýtibār of a shaykh who lived in an áwbar which an áābir reaches after doing úbūr of ábr (which is by the íbr) coming from ádan in yemen. may Allāh táālā grant ábīr for his resting place. it is prudent for those who have done ábar and ábar to say that there is no íbrah for the statements made by the úbr which revels in banātu íbr.

    because the íbārah is after all, the tábīr of the áābir’s idea.
  10. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    i missed this somehow. so i hope it is not too late to reply for this.

    looking forward to WHAT? you reading it? in which case, you are blaming yourself (like you are saying: "it will take ages for me to read"). and if you are looking forward to my 'translations' or 'interpretations' then, you need to read once again. there was just a helpful suggestion for you to go read some books.

    as for this ghost karim abdullah - i don't which guise or form he has taken these days to haunt the net. but i want to shut your mouth once and for all as you have repeating this at every opportunity: true, i had made a promise of posting scans of books of the deobandis with offensive passages. this was in 1999 or thereabouts. but i did not have the resources (flatbed scanners were expensive and slow; image compression was still in infancy; bandwidth was 56kbps and hard-disk space was 4/8gb; hosting plans were unaffordable by an individual like me etc.) and personal engagements (day job and other things; books back home in india etc) that prevented me from doing it.

    some brothers have already done it and you can satisfy yourself from the scans here. yet, i intend to keep my promise and scan from the books i have at home, when i get the time. wa billahi't tawfiq.

    as for other cheap attacks on alahazrat culled from ihsan ilahi zaheer's screed, parts of which you too have posted yourself under one of the dozen screen-names you assume, is beneath a decent man to answer. some of our elders were forced to stoop down lest the common people mistake it for the truth. if you have any such objections which you demand 'answers', post the link here - there are dozens of brothers today who can rip apart your objections.

    go ahead, post it as a separate thread and inshaAllah get your answers.

    as for answer to the imkan al-kadhib tragedy, wait. it is easy to do a google search and pick up a stray quote from a forum or half-a-scan from some place and post it as refutation, than read books and try to understand and make sure that what we have understood is correct.

    more so, it is easy to just cite the page number of an arabic book and claim that the answer is there, than translate the passage in readable english.

    so for this point, yes; it has been long and pending. we try and Allah ta'ala gives success. and things happen when He wishes, not when we want.
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2010
  11. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    my above post (#27) appears to be dup of post (#25). I was still drafting my response before #25 pre-empted it. Apologies.
  12. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    Can anyone else see if brother abu Hasan has used or even implied that "only" this passage is tampered?

    FK is trying to invent, trying to deceive but he can't go very far. He can't run, he can only jump. Not a bad spectacle!


    Brother AQ already nailed your needless attempt to deflect the heat. I am not aware of any split between barelwi ulemas on any issue related to aqeedah. I am not aware of any of them having broken rank to consider deobandis/wahabis to be within the fold of ahl us-sunnah. Each one of them consider people like you to be filth. Educate me if any of the 'so-called' factions that you mention have anything good to say about you and your people's pathetic beliefs.


    Anyway back to the topic. I'm eager to snap your final 'pose'.
  13. Sidenote: *Please* don't waste this space by mentioning anti-depressents and commenting on peoples character. Also, stop talking about individuals not related to the discussion at hand. Let us keep this `Ilmi, and keep our intentions pure.

    wal `afw minkum

  14. Subhanallah! I didn't bring the topic up. I replied to your quoting of as-Sayyid Murtada.

    How do you know we are all of subcontinental heritage? I didn't know about the scholars mentioned, Ridhwan Allah `Alayhim, until I began visiting this forum.

    1. Please give us your interpretation. If it does not mean tampered, what do you make of this:

    ودسو في كتبهم ما ليس من كلامهم

    I asked you before, and you asked me further questions!

    2. Can you show me where the Sayyid mentions that this is the ONLY place that has been tampered. Keeping silent and affirming that there are no more inserted places are not the same.

    What is your opinion on the matter? Afterall it was you who brought the scan in support of your idea and the scan said the opposite of what you were saying. So why don't you give us your take?
  15. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    lmao... this is hilarious

    is followed by

    Try one of these:

    Anafranil, Cipramil, Prothiaden, Sinequan, Prozac, Tofranil, Gamanil, Zispin, Manerix, Allegron, Seroxat, Nardil, Edronax, Lustral, Parnate, Molipaxin, Efexor


    by the way, there are just as many or more rifts within deobandis and wahabis and shias too

    learn to look for people inside religion, not religion inside people

    EDIT: sorry for going offtrack, couldn't help myself commenting, but this person needs help with more than just scholars' discourses
  16. faqeerkhan

    faqeerkhan Guest

    you make me laugh.... Why should i have to agree with abu hasan or anyone else here on the forum... all fig leaves were gone the day the splits occured in the barelwi school like sunni dawate islami & dawate islami & turab al haq qadri and akhtar raza khan sahib... They don't seem to all agree that's why the split. so who lost the dignity there ? so why should it be any different here ?

    please concentrate on the topic. since zabidi says only that passage (asp per abu hasan's intrepretation) is inserted what about rest of the book ? because he says looks like (only) this ibarah has been inserted...
    any thoughts...
  17. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    FK is seriously deluded.

    He has been stripped of all his fig leaves (of flimsy arguments) and yet refuses to believe that he has lost his dignity. He tried to stick a big parchment (of scan with underlines). Little did he realise that this new fig leaf was a see-through, which, instead of concealing, exposed him completely.

    Now he is jumping up and down and trying to mock others. Imagine the spectacle of someone jumping without any fig leaf and any modicum of dignity left!
  18. faqeerkhan

    faqeerkhan Guest

    good suggestion, but better what abu hasan said just follow what the scholars have said like haytami or murtaza zabidi but then again do you follow everything these scholars have said or pick and select the ones you like and ignore the other things ? now i am confused :)
  19. abu nibras

    abu nibras Staff Member

    I agree with sidi faqeerkhan, building upon it, i'd suggest that unless I see a youtube video of the actual tampering, as it is happening, nobody's word can be trusted.

    maxim : all books are untampered without youtube tahrif video proof, there i said it.

    p.s what if there is video edit tahrif of the tahrif proof video, need to think about that, i am confused.
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2010
  20. faqeerkhan

    faqeerkhan Guest

    Suleiman Bin Salim alMuslim

    1) Did Shaykh Abdul Qadir Jilani wrote a book called Ghunya
    Yes or No

    2) if YES then where is that book ?

    3) if NO then what about the scholars who said that he wrote the book

    4) The ghunyah which we have today, is it tampered or no ?
    If it is tampered, then please provide proof. Does a mere saying of any scholar enough and what is the criteria for it ?

    These are my questions, simple as that. no confusion at all.

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