Fasting on Arafah --- or the 9th?

Discussion in 'Miscellany' started by sunni_porter, Aug 17, 2018.

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  1. sunni_porter

    sunni_porter Well-Known Member

    fasting on june 15 -> yes because linking arafah with the day hujjaj stand in arafah and not 9th Dhul Hijjah per se...also, there's no conflict with anything since it is the 8th Dhul Hijjah for the local moonsighter

    not fasting on june 16 out of precaution as it may be Eid -> not necessary, because linking Eid with local moonsighting therefore you are good with Eid being on the 17th. otherwise, if you don't fast on the 16th out of precaution that it might be Eid, then you might as well celebrate Eid on the 16th as well!
  2. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    fasting on arafah is neither wajib nor farD.
    fasting on eid day is makruh-taHrimi

    so if someone celebrates eid on what would be arafat day, they don't fast.
  3. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    one wahabi-leaning neutral desi unkil i just met, was lamenting at the state of the desis both barelwis and devbandis (context is on this moon issue) and he actually said something sensible - paraphrased - 'ok i understand the fiqh difference for local vs global sighting. but Arafah is the day on which hujjaj gather on the plains of Arafat PLUS the fasting is prescribed for the day of Arafah, not for 9th Dhil Hijjah per se (pretty much verbatim the content of this topic on SP). we respect you wanna do Eid per your local trusted sighting. go ahead, but can you please fast on the 15th of june (Arafah for hujjaj) and not fast on the 16th june as a precaution (as it is 9th Dhil Hijjah for you, but 10th Dhil Hijjah and Eid for others; and might well be the real Eid in front of Allah)?'

    this is a separate point and nothing to do with my question explained in post # 6.
  4. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    you didn't get my point.

    because we follow the international date line for solar/western calendar, and due to the earth's and moon's orbits - mostly, at least as far as i know, some countries tend to LAG BEHIND Makkah by a day at times, just as you pointed out - this year Eid in Makkah on 16th, pakistan on the 17th.

    i may be wrong but i've never heard of a case where a country went AHEAD of Makkah. as in Ramadan starts in country x on Sunday but in Makkah it starts on Monday!

    my question was about the opposite scenario - what if some country went AHEAD of Makkah - and had Eid on 16th, while that same day is 9th Dhil Hijjah and Arafah in Makkah? how will the people of that place fast on Arafah? (rhetorical question, they obviously can't). i'm pretty sure this scenario is possible if the international date line (for the western calendar) is moved somewhere else than where it is now. perhaps we Muslims need our own Muslim Lunar Hijri international date line that runs through Makkah.

    i may be wrong on the whole thing, it may not be scientifically possible for the opposite to be the case. i stand to be corrected.
  5. ramiz.noorie

    ramiz.noorie Active Member

    Pakistan this year 2024 will have their eid on 17 june 2024 vs saudi which was on 16 june

    It is with sighting of the eye not with international date line
  6. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    One question that came to mind - what if Makkah is a day behind some place? Then that place would be having Eid (not allowed to fast) whereas the hujjaj will be in Arafat!

    Granted this won't happen with the current system established by the international date line (plz correct me, i didn't gather the facts on this yet).

    Sorry if this was mentioned before on the thread.
  7. sunni_porter

    sunni_porter Well-Known Member

    Bump (tweet/thread is applicable this year)
  8. sunni_porter

    sunni_porter Well-Known Member

    For Muslims residing outside of Saudi, many will have two options of performing Eid:
    A. masaajid that followed Saudi (August 21)
    B. masaajid that followed local moonsighting or follow global but rejected Saudi's sighting due to scientific evidence (August 22)

    For those following option B, based on the explanation in the tweet, they can:
    - fast on the day the hajis are actually on the plains of Arafah (August 20; which corresponds to the 8th of Dhul Hijjah in their locality)
    - fast as well on the 9th of Dhul Hijjah (August 21; date as per their locality)
    - celebrate Eid on 10th of Dhul Hijjah (August 22; date as per their locality)

    And based on the tweets, accepting Arafah as August 20 does not mean Eid is August 21 since Eid is 10th of Dhul Hijjah which is based on moonsighting criteria (which is option B)?

    Wouldn't it be better for such Muslims to follow option A?
  9. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    tweets on this topic: (too many tweets. bear with me)

    click on the tweet to go to the thread.
    Abdullah Ahmed, FaqirHaider and Aqdas like this.

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