Films about Islam/Islamic history/Islamic history/personalities etc.

Discussion in 'Smalltalk' started by Wadood, Jun 8, 2009.

Draft saved Draft deleted
  1. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    Seriously, but sidi nj, I did not like the depiction of Sayyiduna Imam al-Ghazali raDyAllahu 'anhu because I find it a bit disrespectful for a Wali of Allah as him.
  2. in all seriousness though I really believe that in the modern era, in today's media-dominated world, there is no better form of dawah--especially to the next generations--than cinema, video games and, soon, virtual reality environments. Fiqh rulings can change with circumstances and, imho, with the correct intention--i.e. to further the cause of traditional islam against, for example, its misrepresentation by wahabis and extremists--such use of multimedia would go a lot further than lectures by exotic looking maulvis in alien languages. actions are by intentions. if such things were categorically haraam why would a Sunni scholar like Shaykh AHM be involved in a film project about the life of Imam Ghazali?

    I agree that movies like Jesus of Nazareth are NOT ideal but in the absence of such projects by Muslims it is the only available alternative for many young Muslims who want to learn about the life of Isa :as: in a quick and painless yet entertaining way. Similarly, The Message was excellent dawah and it was approved by al-Azhar. My point is that we can either do these things ourselves or sit back in our ivory towers and just howl in protest when Disney produce their own corrupted fantasy versions!

    At least the Turks are realising this and producing quality animated movies like Sultan Fatih and the recent cartoon about the Prophet :as: (again Huzoor were not shown.) I think The Message teaches more about the conditions of life at the time of the Prophet and that society than a dozen lectures by the best scholars because it appeals to our senses especially visually.

    Is what I am saying so bad?
    If anyone has seen the HBO/BBC history series "Rome" they will realise how effective TV can be as a learning tool for learning history. Imagine a similar series entitled, THe Abbasids with such superb production values. How many people would learn about our early history?!
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2009
  3. :s1:

    sidi AH -- that is why I love you. You point out my mistakes and shortcomings and I learn from you. :)
  4. Askari

    Askari Guest

    and you are a hururi khariji.

    given your logic, what would you call the one recomending christian movies?
  5. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    in the hadith of bukhari and muslim from umm al-mu'minin sayyidah ayishah raDiyallahu anhaa:

    when the Prophet SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam took ill, one of his women mentioned a temple named mariah. when sayyidah umm salmah and sayyidah umm Habibah raDiyallahu anhuma had been ethiopia and seen this church and were discussing the pictures made therein.

    RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam raised his head and said: "when a pious man amongst them died, people would build a masjid upon the grave and decorate it with their pictures. these were the most evil people in the creation."
    ali al-qari comments:
    "that is, they made pictures of pious people to remember them; to encourage people to worship by looking at them. and thereafter came a generation and the devil made their [ugly] actions to be adorned for them, and told them: 'your elders used to worship these pictures' and thus they fell into worshipping idols."
    if you compare it with the 'orthodox' aqidah, it is not only Haram to play the prophet, watching such things for fun is belittling prophets alayhimu's salam and which could earn the ruling of kufr. al-iyadhu billah.

    ghurur. or delusion. intellectual slaves imprisoned by nafs and desires tend to think of themselves as liberals. the true liberated soul is one free of nafs and desire.

    i won't dispute that, but the Master sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam who promised shafa'ah said:
    'a wise man is he who checks his nafs and works for [what comes] after death. and impotent, incapable is he who follows his nafs in its desires and yet, hopes for reward with Allah.'
    a parable: a king gave three people identical pieces of land and bade them work on it. and the one with the best harvest will be entered in the king's court.

    one of them studied the whole thing carefully, spent time learning from experts on the various methods to cultivate the land and thereafter put his knowledge into practice. worked on it and the harvest was full and plenty.

    the second, tilled his land, watered it, sowed the seed, but was distracted now and then. his harvest was poor; for he was not as diligent as the first. yet, he hopes that the king will consider him for he tried.

    and the third, did nothing. left the land to be full of weed, and then snakes and scorpions festered in the land and spent his time loitering around as a vagrant. the news of his mischief and waywardness had already reached the king. there was no harvest, and yet he takes a handful of weed to the king and hopes for reward.

    do you think all those great people who wept for mercy and spent their nights in istighfar were fools? or did not have a shaykh? or did not have faith in the Messenger's shafa'ah? sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam?
    none feel secure from the secret plan of Allah, except a doomed people. [al-a'araf 99]
    i am sorry to say this again, but you don't seem to have a clue of aqidah or things that cause one to go out of islam. unlike most muslims, you think you are smarter than others, so you 'choose' what to do and what not to do.

    such things were known to common unlettered people in the past generation. today, even such basic things of aqidah/fiqh are alien to reasonably educated people.

    Allah ta'ala knows best.
  6. SK,

    it is about thinking for oneself. sidi AH-- you know i don't mind anything you say.:)
    i would describe myself as orthodox in aqida [alhamdulillah] but liberal in most other ways. as for the grave -- insha Allah my Shaykh (Shaykh Nazim) and Aaqa :as: will do shafa'at for me-after all shafa'at is for the sinful Muslims!
  7. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    I have nothing new to add. The 'debate' is now getting sterile.

    I was hoping that someone knowledgeable may add a definitive statement about the permissibility/impermissibility of depiction (in portraiture, photo or film) of the Prophets :as:.
  8. Abu Fadl

    Abu Fadl Banned

    Why do you have such a thread on an Islamic site? We were just talking about Shaikh Ala Hazrat and look at this?
  9. Askari

    Askari Guest

    my reply to you wadood sijistani.

    i only listed those because movies made by christians were also part of the list!
  10. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    Has anyone seen the eyes of Hazrat Mariam in that movie? They depict her eyes and face as if boiling in anger at her stolen right. This is the typical twelver rafidi mindset. Depict Fatima as crying-angry at her loss due to Sayyidna Abu Bakr and Sayidna Umar radyAllahu 'anhuma, and that you can pass on the moods and assumed facial features on to Hazrat Mariam as well.

    Then all of a sudden, dua kumail starts and everybody who does not cry at least starts acting to cry.

    I am not good at english vocabulary and so cannot describe what I am trying to depict, but believe me, if you notice a Sunni Kurd and a twelver Shia in Iran, who actively engage in religion, you will see the natural gleefulness on the blessed face of the Sunni, and the wretched antipathy on the face of the practicing rafidi. He/She will be out there to try their best to harm you at your back, but infront he/she will either behave in taqiyya or not in taqiyya, and when not in taqiyya, he/she will start their hate and you should see thier faces then, you will find them exactly as they depict Hazrat Mariam in that movie.

    I am sure, that the blessed face of Sayyidatina Hazrat Maryum 'alayhassalam is like a thousand rainbows, not like that with wide open angry-red-dripping eyes, as if she wants her right back, also with no grudge, malice, hate depicted on her face.

    I am against depicting Hazrat Mariam in movies, but honestly, she was shown in a better light in that christian movie, the passion of the christ by mel gibson
  11. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    Are you saying that Shaykh Hisham Kabbani is implying that I take all the ills of west? Can I extend Shaykh Hisham's saying to start watching "Last Temptation of Christ" and all the movies on your recommendation list?

    I pity your ability to ratiocinate, notwithstanding your stance the other day on modern logic and Aristotelian logic. Your logic beggars belief.

    I don't understand what is the "civilisation" element in any of the movies that you have recommended (say, for example in "The Last Temptation of Christ"). Educate me please.


    Without skirting the above point, can you tell me what's the stance of ulemas on body depiction of the Prophets :as: (irrespective of the lies in biblical narrative)? Is it permissible? Do you care to know if it's permissible?


    While some seerah works might be riddled with israiliyyat, it doesn't make Torah or Bible authentic and all biblical narrations free of error.


    In that case, please disclaim that your recommendation is only for 'reasonably educated muslim'. I don't count myself one, nor do I think you know enough to tell every inaccuracy.


    So do you believe in 'scientifically' fabricated/constructed facts that Hazrat Musa :as: didn't exist? Why bring faith in this equation, which will be questioned by your fellow 'scientific' friends? Why stand on two stools? I prefer to keep standing on the safe stool of faith.

    Your rant is meaningless. I mentioned "History testifies to the Infallibility of the Qur'an" as a "suggested" reading. I didn't say it was a compulsory reading for you and fundo christians. That you already know the 'facts' is great, but that you don't understand it is a shame.


    No thanks, I have no interest in Scorcese's or Gibson's movies. My taste is not very 'refined' and eclectic.


    No, I'm not a spokesman for others. I only speak for myself.


    Check your facts. Gert Wilders is yet to taste the torment of death (although he can't escape it). I guess you're talking abt one Van Gogh.


    That's a futile attempt to annouce your ability to comprehend. You'll fall and fall again. Try standing on the shoulders of the giants (our esteemed elders) and you shall never fall or fail.


    Until the time you see some light, chew on this. Allama Farooq Chishti narrated this incident this Friday on Noor TV. One day our beloved Prophet :sas: chanced upon Hazrat Umar Farooque :ra: reading Torah. The Prophet :sas: immediately flew into rage and castigated Hazrat Umar Farooque :ra: for indulging in such act. If a Farooque ('the one who makes a difference') was not permitted to study torah (notwithstanding pygmies like Deedat and Zakir attempting the same), how permissible is this for ignoramuses like us!
  12. yet you continue to live in the West and enjoys the fruits of its civilisation I take it?

    The West ain't perfect but it's a better place to live than any other place as the constant stream of Sunni and other Muslim migrants from East to West testifies...
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2009
  13. if you're not interested personally that's also fine but there are and will be lots of other sunni muslims who will be interested and i don't think you should be their spokesman! i never said anywhere that muslims should be 'cultural' and liberation like me, brother!

    does it make sense to protest something without having examined or seen what it is your protesting about? i thought muslims were supposed to be intelligent and rigorous! emotional responses get us nowhere except make martyrs of the authors/film-makers.

    what did the bookburning and protests achieve--though i have to say as an easily-led teenager i went on these marches foolishly--other than giving islam a bad rep and making those books bestsellers? what did killing gert wilders achieve?

    i wouldn't protest anything now until i had checked it out for myself. i won't rely on third-hand evidence anymore.
  14. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    I beg to differ. I'm not as "cultural" or "liberated" as you are or as you believe every muslim must be. I prefer my "narrow-mindedness". Mods would make us believe that this is a Sunni site and not an online chaupal or a gupshup site for muslims.

    I protested because you were peddling these movies as "of interest" to Muslims. I am a muslim and these movies do not interest me.

    It appears that an open-minded muslim in you wouldn't protest a Gert Wilders movie or a Salman Rushdie novel until you've seen or read these. I'm glad that I'm so free of western acculturation.
  15. as for scorcese's movie i haven't seen it but i wouldn't judge it until i had seen it. have you read the novel by kazantzakis on which it is based?

    gibson's the passion of the christ is highly recommended though.
  16. bro, i think you're being typically narrow-minded. yes, the books of sira exist, and i have read some of them too and i like to think that i can tell which parts are fiction and which parts conform to koranic and islamic viewpoints.

    the reality is that the we do not have much biographical data about the lives of any of the previous prophets which is why even books like the lives of the prophets by ibn kathir rely on the bible and the torah too.

    secondly it is a movie. if u don't like it switch it off. thirdly it is still beneficial despite some inaccuracies. i tihnk any reasonably educated muslim will be able to distinguish between the two.

    thirdly i never questioned the infallibility of the qur'an and so why are you raising that topic although the title of the book gives away its neutrality. the fact is that historically speaking--if we're going to use the methods of modern history--there is no primary evidence even for the existence of musa :as: . of course, we believe it on faith but given this fact how can you write a book like 'history testifies to the infallibility of the koran'; a fundo christian will claim the same thing for the bible.
  17. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    I don't understand why you should recommend watching the above movies to a muslim. Do you think that the portrayal of Hazrat Musa :as: and Hazrat Isa :as: in these movies is in concordance with the holy Qur'an?

    Even in my younger days (when I was more ignorant than I am now), I couldn't bear sitting through Cecil DeMille's Ten Commandments. I left the theatre hall after my mind started revolting against the depiction of Hazrat Musa :as: with general humanly frailities and use of Charles Heston for a body portrayal of a Prophet :as:.


    If Islam abhors depiction (in portraiture, photo or film) of our beloved Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم, do you think it permits depiction of Hazrat Musa :as: and Hazrat Isa :as:?


    Secondly, don't we as muslims know that the christian and jewish idea of Hazrat Musa :as: and Hazrat Isa :as: is a package of lies and half-truths? If you don't know this basic fact, I suggest you read Louay Fatoohi's books:
    (i) History testifies to the Infallibility of the Qur'an (published by Adam Publishers) - comparing the Qur'anic narration of Hazrat Musa's :as: exodus with the self-contradictory biblical narrations
    (ii) The Mystery of the Historical Jesus (pub. by Luna Plena)

    Why recommend movies on biblical lies, when the seerah of these noble Prophets can be gleaned and learnt from the Qur'an and other works by Islamic scholars?

    Are you next going to recommend Scorsese's "The Last Temptation of Christ"?
  18. THANKS wadood --you beat me to the punch. i was just going to say that the movies listed by askari are all made in iran and though they have excellent production values--iran has a fantastic film industry making intelligent movies that win many awards internationally e.g. jafar panahi and mohsin and fatima makhalbaf are v. good directors--they are rafidi propagation pieces. i saw a part of the imam ali :as: movie on youtube and it portrays hazrat amir muawiyah as a drunkard and a clownish villain-- naudhubillah. hazrat maryam :as:, the greatest woman who ever lived, was perfect but it is not sunni doctrine that she was ma'sum right cos we believe only anbiya are ma'sum. i am sure she was mahfuz though and sinless. btw that is actually a good film to show to Xtians!
  19. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    All made by rafidis to confuse the ignorant. It is clear to me that Askari is a rafidi twelver.

    I would like to especially mention the 'Hazrat maryam' one. Iran made it exclusively as a propaganda tool to propagate this stupid idea:

    Hazrat Maryam was a non-prophet and also sinless, ma'sum, therefore, non-prophets can be sinless ma'sum, and therefore the '12 imams of the ithna ashris, the twelvers, are ma'sum; therefore this is proof of twelver shia doctrines. The utter stupid, and obvious games that Qom plays is not hidden believe me.
  20. Askari

    Askari Guest

    11. Imam Ali (movie in 22 hour parts, in many languages)
    12. Hazrat Maryam (maryam muqaddasah)- the movie-available in many languages.
    13. ghareeb e tous (about the 8th imam of ahl al-bayt)
    14. maut se mulaqat
    15. ashab e kaaf
    16. riwayat e ishq (on companions of Imam hussain)
    17. roz e waqia (on the life of abdullah nasrani also a lover of imam husssain)
    18. safeer e hussain (based on the journey of the messenger of imam hussain qais bin mussahar)
    19. shaheed e kufa (on life of Imam Ali)

Share This Page