FUREC & Molwi Jilani Baba's lies

Discussion in 'Bickering' started by Mohammad Hassan Raza, Mar 8, 2010.

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  1. Assalaamu 'Alaykum

    I am deviating a bit from the topic ..

    Brother Sunnistudent .. Next time you visit Ajmer Shareef do not forget to say my 'AAJIZAANAH SALAAM to My Sultaan ul Awliya-e-Hind Rahmatullah 'Alayh ..

    I find it so nice whenever I hear about My Dada Peer Huzoor Taaj ush Shariah Daamat Barkaatuhumul 'Aaliya .. Next Time you visit him say my 'AAJIZAANAH SALAAM to Him as well ..

    My name is Muhammad Inaayatullah Hassan Qaadri .. I am from Bokaro , India..

    It is an earnest request to you BHAIJAAN ..!

  2. Abu Fadl

    Abu Fadl Banned

    I am not very familiar with Hijazi Shaikhs, apart from the fact that their grandfather was a notable Sunni scholar and debator.

    As for the Barailwi position on Hashmi Sahib, I have seen the websites myself and you can do a youtube search and find plenty of videos on there. I know of brothers associated closely with Baraili Sharif and they said some unpleasent things about Shaikh Madni Mian and Hashmi mian Sahib. I was very saddened to hear it, especially being a person who listens to lectures of Sheikh Madni Sahib.

    Now one can do the same and start posting the quotes that the Barailwis use about the two brothers all over forums but I hope people would agree it's not a wise thing to do!!
  3. sunnistudent

    sunnistudent Veteran

    My dear beloved brother, I mentioned that point only to provide an additional information. Suppose , after few years some one writes a biography of Shaykh Irashad Maghribi in which it will be mentioned that he lost his eye sight at an early age , then the question will be asked" then how did he complete dars e nizami"?

    That time young people might have to do research in answering this question. It is only for this reason that I mentioned that time.

    And there is no doubt in the knowledge of shaykh irashd maghribi regading works of ala hazrat.

    It is the faydh of sulatn al hind , khawja e khwajgan, sayyed moinuddin chisti ( radhi allahu ta'ala) that irshad al maghribi is doing such great work in connection with publishing books.

    If you ask him how he has such a sharp memory and how he handles all this , he just replies in one statement: Sab khawja sahab ka faydh hai!

    My intention was only to comment on that "allama" thing , nothing else.
  4. ghulamemadni

    ghulamemadni New Member

    subhanallah, ya sayyidi forgive me for my mistakes, i did not say he is an allama for the sake of argument, i just provided the above information so that people do not consider him fake. The reason as to why i called him an allama is not because what i feel, but i heard Allama Mehdi Miyan chishti call him that in Ajmer gathering and Allama tauseef Raza Khan in Kota, Rajasthan. He also gave a speech in Kota, and believe me he was quoting fatawa rizvia by heart and gave a very ilmi speech. Thats all, i have no problem if you consider him only a hafiz, but i feel the otherwise.
  5. sunnistudent

    sunnistudent Veteran

    Brother. I don't want to argue on all this. He is not aalim e deen ( mawlana)

    Again, please check your words. He ,like many others knows which volume of fatawa Ridhwiya contains which books anD topic. He has lost his eye sight and has sharp memory,but has not memorised fatawa ridhwiya.

    Shaykh Irshad maghribi is very close to me. I talk to him often.

    Last time when I met Tajush Sharia at his home, he honoured me by keeping me close to him and in his house. I saw his library and madarsa under construction. That does not make me "allama"

    When I visit Ajmer sherif , I always go there.

    Next time when you meet him , you can ask him if he takes books from Syed Fazle Mateen Chisti.
  6. ghulamemadni

    ghulamemadni New Member

    To those brothers who are not aware of such terms. It is an ijma of the scholars of Ahle Sunna wal jamaat, that if 99 evidences are calling for someone's kufr and one weak daleel is available to favour his iman, then accept that weak daleel for iman.

    The charge of kufr in its intial stages was of Kufr luzumi which progressed till kufr Kalami. Now for kufr kalami, the words which results into kufr kalami must be Mufassar/Mutayyan for the meaning of kufr, yet there are not any words in the Surat declaration or furec which are mufassar for the meaning of kufr. Never mind kufr kalami, even kufr Luzumi (fiqahi) the words need to be zaahir for the meaning of kufr. Lets take an example:

    Religions are like exquisite gardens, places full of surpassing beauty and tranquility, like sacred groves filled with beautiful birds and their melodious songs. Religions are beautiful gardens, but they are islands… there is also need for continual education of adult population and senior citizens on values of lives and about the basic spiritual unity of all religions…. Education and intellectual activities are vital. In addition these values have to be reinforced in every citizen through specific projects, which can bring people together, irrespective of their social levels or religious beliefs

    Now Surat Declaration was not presented only by Jilani mian but leaders from different relgions. So the meaning is "Our religions are like gardens". In another words the association of religions is with each of its leaders. And it is a rule of grammar that if the nisbat of plural is towards plural then the meaning will be divided between each individual. This is also the opinion of Ahnaaf (Fathul Qadeer, Vol 1, P14). Every sentence and word of Surat declaration and furec can be explained otherwise, which cannot mean kufr kalami or luzumi.

    And from an interview Jilani Miya gave to 'India Today' in Hindi which made people aware of his beliefs:

    ‘Jilani Baba is a believer in Swami Vivikanand’s view on the Unity of Religions.’ .

    This was published in the India Today magazine and refuted by Jilani Mian himself in that magazine. Why have you not mention that? Who is not honest now? Also this cannot be considered kufr, as Huzoor Ghazie Millat himself declared that after Jilani mian's refutation of this, there is no charge on him.

    And also how can one logically claim that the purpose of this organisation was wahdat al adyaan when the conclusion of Surat declaration is this:

    The Unity of Minds can be achieved even while keeping INTACT the rich diversity of rites, rituals, ideas and BELIEFS amongst and blending them with modern knowledge and skills (page 45)
  7. ghulamemadni

    ghulamemadni New Member

    Well he is an allama and a hafiz-e-Quran as well as knows the entire Fatawe Rizvia by heart. As I have met him in the presence of Tajush Shariah in Mumbai. And Hazrat Tajush Shariah gives him a lot of importance, as the Allama is the mureed of Mufti-e-Azam Hind. He is also the head of Daarul Uloom Razae Khawaja. just for more info
  8. sunnistudent

    sunnistudent Veteran

    Shaykh Irshad Maghrabi is not "allama". He is a hafiz of the quran. He lost his eye sight in his early years and is blessed with sharp memory. He is involved in publishing books of Ala Hazrat which are out of print. He is based in Ajmer sherif. When I last spoke to him he was getting a book ready to be published having correspondence between Ala Hazrat and Abdal Bari Firangmahli .

    The issue of "kufr" and Jilani miyan has been explained in detail in the latest edition of as sawairumul hindiya. Those interested can read.

    Insha Allah, in future if I have time will scan the whole thing.
  9. The Emir

    The Emir Well-Known Member

    Ghulam is deluded and if he can't see the kufr then all I can say is that Allah Almighty has taken away any ability he has to distinguish truth from falsehood. He won't even acknowledge that Jilani Miya lied in his book the Declaration of Truth as I have shown in my earlier posts. When the lies are so blatant and someone still defends them then what more can I or anyone esle do to make him see the light? Maybe he wants eternal darkness and cannot be helped.

    Abu Fadl

    As I said before you don't seem to have the foggiest as to what has gone on. It wasn't the hijazi scholars but just zain ul aqtab who supposedly wanted a munazara - and he did so in such a way that he lied when he made the phone call and introduced himself as someone from Bombay!!! Great and honest start hey???

    I suggest you have a read of this:

    If zain ul aqtab or anyone else wants a debate then there are several young english speaking scholars in Birmingham who will entertain them. Also Hashmi Miya is in Birmingham who you can contact as well. Just let any Ashrafi in Birmingham know in writing and it will be dealt with. Zain ul aqtab has been silent for four years despite having been requested to a debate. No one will come to defend blatant kufr like this:


    ‘Religion a beautiful partner in the Nation’s prosperity
    Religions are like exquisite gardens, places full of surpassing beauty and tranquility, like sacred groves filled with beautiful birds and their melodious songs. Religions are beautiful gardens, but they are islands… there is also need for continual education of adult population and senior citizens on values of lives and about the basic spiritual unity of all religions…. Education and intellectual activities are vital. In addition these values have to be reinforced in every citizen through specific projects, which can bring people together, irrespective of their social levels or religious beliefs

    Project 1: Celebration of Inter-Religious festivals
    Every month in all parts of India there can be a multi-religious gathering to convey the core message attempted in the prayer of peace and about the basic truths contained in various religions. Such a prayer should be preceded by prayers from all religions practiced in that part of the country by respective religious and spiritual leaders in the presence of the people. Each month the day selected could be a holy day from one religion: Islam, Hindu, Christianity, Sikh, Parsi, Jain, Buddhist etc. Regular conduct of such meetings by all religious leaders and people from different religions respecting holy days of other religions will send a powerful message.

    Project 2: Multi-religious projects
    These efforts will elevate religions in the minds of the people and the nation will benefit.

    Project 3: Education in and with the ambience of Unity of Religions
    All religious educational institutions operating in different parts of the country should enrol children from other religions in certain proportions and imbibe values such as religious tolerance, righteousness. The real purpose and the unity of religions should be embedded in the minds of the students.’

    ‘4. Aim: To promote and implement the Surat Spiritual Declaration (attached as appendix) by sustaining the human spirit on the basis of acceptance of, and respect for, all religions, spirituality, economic well-being and on the practice of Non-Violence.’

    5. Objectives:

    (d) To organize multi-religious functions to poularize joint celebrations of religious festivals. Common Community Kitchens and multi-religious prayers.

    (f) To promote universal values of all religions.

    (l) To arrange for the writings, editing, translating and publishing, books, encyclopaedias, periodicals, rare manuscripts, monographs and generate audio visual materials and other technological forms of dissemination on Unity of Religions.

    (z) To preserve rare manuscripts, letters, pictures, stone images, artist works and archaeological and historical exhibits and establish archives/museums.’

    And from an interview Jilani Miya gave to 'India Today' in Hindi which made people aware of his beliefs:

    ‘Jilani Baba is a believer in Swami Vivikanand’s view on the Unity of Religions.’ .

    ‘Without learning Sanskrit understating the inner self cannot be understood. And without understanding the inner self spiritual cleanliness, beliefs and the oneness in religion cannot be established.’

    ‘Only those who prefer brutality are now leaving [graduating from] Islamic universities.’
  10. Abu Fadl

    Abu Fadl Banned

    Sorry, the Hajazi Shuyukh challenged Madni Sahib, not Hashmi Sahib. It does not really matter as both brothers share the same opinion on their nephew. Instead of having these slinging matches on the internet just settle it in a munazara, especially as one side has put up a challenge. We can finally put it to rest then.
  11. ghulamemadni

    ghulamemadni New Member

    No not at all, this infact applies to you and your dad. My father has passed away long time ago (May Allah shower his mercy upon his grave). This website will give you shivers and this HAQ is taken from the dictionary of 'Ala Hazrat. Yet again you give no genuine replies to my posts. May Allah guide you and your family
  12. The Emir

    The Emir Well-Known Member

    MAy Allah give you the taufeeq to do taubah and the power to control your words

    This should apply to you and your dad more than anyone!

    I look forward to reading the website and see the supporters of kufr make themselves look even more stupid. First we had the Declaration of Truth in which Jilani Miya prints blatant lies and now we have this - its odd how you end up interpreting lies and falsehoods as 'haq.' Maybe this is the FUREC dictionary definition???
  13. ghulamemadni

    ghulamemadni New Member

    Alhamdulillah as the genuine readers will observe that eminent scholars do not agree with the kufr allegation and the fatwa of Tajush Shariah is an evidence to that. Offcourse their fatwa cannot be explained to the layman, but the educated personalites know what the fatwa signifies.

    Also the post above again attempts to avoid answering questions relating to this. He again uses his faulted reasonings to explain the entire situation, but to no solid grounds. Now the situation has changed, the pressure is on them to repent and fight for their own existence.

    Anyone would be frustrated if what they say is not backed up by great scholars, however I follow what Tajush Shariah, Mufti Mutiur Rahman, Khwaja Muzaffar Hussain, Allama Tauseef Raza Khan, Allama Subhan Raza Khan, Allama Mehdi Miya Chishti, Mufti Mansur Azhari, Allama Zainul Aqtab etc have to say. They all say the kufr allegation is not true.

    I only came to this forum to post a speech, and will post speeches of eminent scholars in the future. For no reason I was slandered and challenged. I presented my point of view, but received no genuine replies apart from slander. However I would like to deeply thank Emir, as because of him I have a new scanner. Anyway since this case was dead, you brought it into life, this is a gift for you http://www.faislehaq.com/. Dear scholars from conventry, leicester and bolton will be running this site, offcourse with genuine slander-less arguments.

    they will like like Satan himself put egos first and waltz all the way to hell.

    Ala Hazrat, Imam Ahmad Raza Khan describes the word rijs from ayate tatheer as kufr, and according to his maslak kufr cannot emanate from a sayed. Imam Abdul Qadir Badauini says it means a sayed will not die as a Kaafir. Here you are proclaiming all those who support Jilani mian are like satans and will go to hell. Who has given you the authority of admission in hell and heaven. How will you face to Hazrat Ali calling his blood (jilani mian) kaafir and to be put into hell. MAy Allah give you the taufeeq to do taubah and the power to control your words.
  14. The Emir

    The Emir Well-Known Member

    I suppose Abu Fadl you are right in that the internet is a place where people who are ignorant write posts about things which they know nothing about and try and pass their comments off as important and relevant. All I will say is that you should practise what you preach as your comments on this matter are simply uninformed and ignorant and plain and simply wrong - they are in fact so wrong that you have mentioned the wrong person in the so called munazara you refer to which is public knowledge. Read up on the topic and then make comments and I'll then take your comments seriously.

    As for our frustrated friend/son he has no answer to the fact that unity, respect and acceptance of religions is anti islamic. He has yet to decide like his pir/Dad what their defence should be. They are confused and haven't worked out yet whether their defence should be that FUREC contains nothing that leads to kufr or that he has resigned and repented!!! Five years have passed and they still can't work it out.

    Despite the blatant kufr of FUREC and lies by Jilani Miya if someone wants to follow him then so be it - what can anyone do if he is attracted to kufr??? I suppose a murid/son would be under tremendous pressure to stick with him but deep down he and others all know that it is their ego which is the problem and repenting is too difficult as it would lead to embarrasment - so they will like like Satan himself put egos first and waltz all the way to hell.
  15. Abu Fadl

    Abu Fadl Banned

    I am not defending Jilani Mian as I hardly know anything about him but you guys need to just stop throwing everything possible at him (in and out of context). He is a member of a great astaana and you should hope that the matter gets sorted between them instead of wanting fitna.

    Have you not seen what the Barailvi Ulama say about Hashmi Sahib? They have made websites against him and a whole series of lectures can be found on youtube where they call him all sorts including a gustakh. Will you now also start promoting that and calling Hashmi Sahib names?

    On the other hand, Barailvi Ulama say Hashmi Sahib insults Ala Hazrat!? I would say both camps are Sunni!

    In times of fitna like this it is best to stay back and hope for unity among the Sunnis.
  16. ghulamemadni

    ghulamemadni New Member

    Nice way to avoid answering the questions and the points raised by brother abu fadl. You are so eager to know who I am? Poor Boy! You must be thinking who this is not surredering to our bullying? It feels like you have an interest in me? What next you are gonna ask for my number. Lets put is this way, You reveal your identity and I will reveal mine? Hows that?

    But before that find some other way to avoid an embarrassment. May Allah give you guidance
  17. ghulamemadni

    ghulamemadni New Member

    Emir are you a molvi with a white turban or a wannabe lawyer?
  18. The Emir

    The Emir Well-Known Member


    are you the estate agent or teacher?
  19. Abu Fadl

    Abu Fadl Banned

    Maraqi and others, you need to grow up. Hashmi Sahib called him a kafir and soon after also hugged him. These people are family and might make up very soon and the people caught up in the middle will have no wear to go. I dont even think Madni Sahib and Hashmi Sahib are bothered anymore so why are you so bothered? Don't fuel the fire but try to extinguish it. These people have spent decades in an Islamic environment whereas the new wave of youngsters on the internet have spent a few months or may be years but are adamant in throwing people out of sunniat or even Islam. Leave them to it. Some people are saying this all started because Jilani Mia started become very popular. Pir competition in the same house, it's happening in a lot of places!

    One of the Hijazi brothers from Coventry asked Hashmi Sahib for a debate on the matter so why dont they just settle it in a munazara?
  20. ghulamemadni

    ghulamemadni New Member

    you have given no genuine replies apart copying and pasting long posts. We are not here to discuss the lies and fraud of Jilani Mian but his kufr. I beleive in accordance to Ulama (reference provided), that he might be anything but a kaafir. THE OBJECTIVE READERS MUST DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES, as you think you are a MUfti and making your own Fatwa
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