FUREC & Molwi Jilani Baba's lies

Discussion in 'Bickering' started by Mohammad Hassan Raza, Mar 8, 2010.

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  1. ghulamemadni

    ghulamemadni New Member

    Your constantly replying and illustrating your Jeehalat. Allahu Akbar another balatant slander, when someone is a sayed you call them non-sayed, and my family are pathaan, yet i become a sayyad. I guess you are also one of the lunatic mureeds desperately trying to avoid an embarassement.

    Answer my questions and please illustrate some skills gained from SATS
  2. The Emir

    The Emir Well-Known Member

    This is what the Surat Spiritual Declaration States:

    Every month in all parts of India there can be a multi-religious gathering to convey the core message attempted in the prayer of peace and about the basic truths contained in various religions. Such a prayer should be preceded by prayers from all religions practiced in that part of the country by respective religious and spiritual leaders in the presence of the people. Each month the day selected could be a holy day from one religion: Islam, Hindu, Christianity, Sikh, Parsi, Jain, Buddhist etc. Regular conduct of such meetings by all religious leaders and people from different religions respecting holy days of other religions will send a powerful message. If possible such gatherings can take place at the religious places where all persons from other religions also can gather on that day. People should also exchange pleasantries and sweets during these meetings, as is the practice in some parts of the country where unity of minds prevails. In addition, in order to spread the message of equality to everybody on that day a' langar' ( community kitchen and eating) can be arranged so that all people eat common food sitting side by side.

    the aim is to celebrate religious days of all religions by going to their places of worship and getting the leader of that religion to say prayers. This is what Jilani Miya signed up to.

    Now look at the fatwa of A'la Hazrat about celebrating a Hindu festival:

    Legal Opinion of the Mujaddid of the 14th century Hijri, the great Wali Allah, the Theologian, the Faqih, the Mujtahid, the Hadith specialist, the accomplished Scholar, defender of the Prophet's, Salla Allahu ta'ala 'alayhi wa Sallam, Excellence, the Imam of the Ahl as-Sunnah w'al-Jama'ah, Shaykh Ahmad Rida Khan, 'alayhi al-rahmah w'al-ridwan.

    Istifta':(Judicial query)
    From Peli Bhit, Kachehri, Kalkatari. Enquirer, Mawlawi 'Irfan 'Ali, Ridwi, Barakati, Bisapuri, 10th Dhul-Hijjah, 1332 Hijrii

    What do the 'Ulama (specialist qualified scholars) of the Din (sacred Religion) and Mufti's (legal experts of sacred law) of shar'i matin (the definitive sacred law) rule on this issue that;

    Muslims who go with the purpose of observing the festivals of Hindu's like during the Dussehra*, etc, are their women no longer in nikah (legal marriage)? Is it also prohibited for traders or salesperson to go?

    Al-Jawab: (the reply: a legal opinion from the adillah shar'iyyah; proofs of shari'ah, i.e. the primary and secondary sources of Shari'ah; Islamic Sacred Law)

    Their going for the purpose of observing the festival is mutlaqan (unrestrictedly i.e. under any circumstances) impermissible (la yajuzu). If it is their (Hindu's) religious festival, in which they exhibit their kufr and shirk (acts which confirm and determine disbelief and idolatry, i.e. negate the belief of Tawhid), screaming expressions of kufr, then it is self-evident. And, this circumstance is a severe haram (an absolutely forbidden act whose validity is not restricted to the limitations of time and circumstance, hence, a tashri 'amm; general legislation which is in direct violation of shari'ah, contrary to the Will of Allah, azza wa jalla) from the Kaba'ir (major sins, i.e. substantiated by dalil qat'iy; definitive proof) nevertheless it is not kufr (act determining one's disbelief) if is scornful (maintains a state of contempt in the heart from such acts and expressions) of kufr orations.

    [*Dussehra is a popular festival celebrated by Hindus all over India, albeit with different names. It is also known as Vijayadashmi ('Vijay' meaning 'victory' and 'Dashmi meaning 'tenth day), as it is believed that it was on this day that Lord Rama killed the demon-king, Ravana and rescued his abducted wife - Sita. In other words, it signifies the triumph of good over evil. The legendary triumph is re-enacted to the day. In the northern parts of India, huge effigies of Ravana, his giant brother Kumbhkarna and son Meghnath are placed in vast open grounds. Fireworks and crackers are placed inside the effigies.]

    Yes, ma'adh Allah; Allah protect us, if is pleased or approves or takes it lightly (insignificant, non-sacrilegious or regards it not to be an impious act) then is himself (a self-asserted) kafir; disbeliever, and in such a circumstance the woman will not remain in nikah (in lawful marriage) and he from Islam (excommunicated), otherwise is a fasiq; evil-doer, and (an act of) fisq does not nullify nikah, nonetheless, the wa'id (threat of punishment) is severe. Furthermore, to exhibit (acts of) kufr as a spectacle of entertainment is dalal ba'id;far-reaching straying. It is reported in a Hadith:
    'He who augments the mass of a nation, he is from them and he who is content (approves or is pleased) with any act (contrary to shar i'ah a nation is (equally) a participant of the person doing the act.'
    [Reported by Abu Y'ala' in his Musnad & by 'Ali bin M'abad in the Book of at-ta'ah w'al-m'asiyah; Obedience & Disobedience on the authority of 'Abd Allah bin Mas'ud, Allah be well pleased with him, from the Prophet, Salla Allahu ta'ala 'alayhi wa Sallam<!--[endif]-->.
    And, also reported by Imam 'AbdAllah bin al-Mubarak, 'alayhi al-rahmah w'al-ridwan, in Kitab az-Zuhd, on the authority of Abi Dhar, Allah be well pleased with him, whilst according to Khatib it is reported on the authority of Anas, Allah be well pleased with him, from the Prophet, <!--[if !vml]--><!--[endif]-->Salla Allahu ta'ala 'alayhi wa Sallam<!--[endif]-->, narrated with the words:
    'He who augments with a nation is from them'.]
    Furthermore, if it is not a religious festival, merely lah'w wa la'ib; amusement and plaything, all the same it is unlikely the festival will be void of munkarat and qaba'ih (reprehensible, forbidden acts and physically or morally vile acts) and the exhibiting of munkarat as spectacles of entertainment is also impermissible. It is decreed in Radd al-Muhtar:
    'Every lah'win (amusement) is Makruh (reprehensible i.e. a disapproved act) and stating it (that every lah'win is makruh) itlaqan (as an absolute, unqualified and unrestricted ruling) includes both the enacting and its listening of.'

    ' Nasb al-rayah li ahadith al-Hidayah in reference to Abi Y'ala and 'Ali bin M'abad, Allah be well pleased with them both, Kitab ul-Jinayat, al-maktabah al-Islamiyah, Volume 4 page 346.
    ' Kanz ul-'Ummal in reference to the report of Hatt from Anas, Allah be well pleased with them both, Hadith No. 24681, Mu'assasa al-Risalah, Beirut, Volume 9 page 10, also Tarikh Baghdad, under the Biography of 'AbdAllah bin 'Atab entry no. 5167 Dar ul-Kitab al-'arabi, Beirut, Volume 10 page 40.

    It is stated in Tahtawi, in the front opening of the book, elucidating upon unlawful knowledge, (whilst) mentioning (the learning of) conjuring:
    'Evident from that is the prohibition of viewing them (i.e. unlawful acts) because the observing of the unlawful (act or speech) is (also) haram (unlawful).'

    That is, the acts of a conjurer, juggler, magician, acrobat and a sorcerer, all are haram and observing their shows and exhibitions for entertainment are also haram (unlawful) because making an entertaining show of a haram is (also consequently) haram, especially if some devilish nonsense of disbelievers is considered to be good/noble, then it is (clearly) a severe tribulation...and as such renewing of faith and marriage will be decreed.
    It is (stated) in Ghamz al-'Uyun:
    Our Masha'ikh (the authentic Scholars) have agreed that whoever regards any affair/act of the disbelievers to be good has (himself) become a disbeliever, to the extent of stringency that they said regarding a person who said that, their abstention from speech whilst dining is a good thing of the Majus (Zoroastrians) or their abandoning sleeping with them (their women) whilst menstruating is a good thing, then he is a Kafir (disbeliever).'

    [i.e. To say or to deem, the traditions, customs, rituals, habits, folklore of the people of kufr, to be 'good', is in (consistent with) true Islam, mujib-e-kufr; inducing one's disbelief.]
    And, if going is (solely) for the purpose of trade or sales, then if the festival is for (commemorating) their kufr or shirk then going is impermissible and prohibited, because, now this place is their m'abad (legally considered to be their place of false and blasphemous worship) and going to the place of worship of disbelievers is a (major) sin.
    It is (stated) in Taymiyyah, then TatarKhaniyyah, then Hindiyyah:

    ' Radd ul-Muhtar, Kitab al-Hazar w'al-Ibahah, Chapter of Sales, Dar Ihya at-Turath al-'Arabi, Beirut, Volume 5, page 253.

    ' Hashiyah at-Tahtawi, 'ala ad-Durr al-Mukhtar, khutbat'ul-Kitab, Dar al-M'arifah, Beirut, Volume 1 page 31.

    ' Ghamz 'Uyun al-Basa'ir m'a al-Ashbah w'an-Naza'ir, al-fann ath-thanī, Idarat'ul-Qur'an w'al-'Ulum al-Islamiyah, Karachi, Volume 1 page 295.

    'It is makruh (reprehensible) for any Muslim to enter the synagogue or the church, and in truth it is makruh due to its being a place of the assembling of devils.'

    It is (elaborated further) in Bahr ar-Ra'iq:

    'It is evident that indeed it (makruh) is tahrimiyyah (to enter the synagogue or church) since that only, is intended when (mentioned) unrestricted (as an absolute ruling).'

    Moreover, it is (enlarged upon) in Radd'ul-Muhtar:

    'So, when it is haram to (merely) enter (the synagogue or church) then (conducting) salat is by foremost degree (an obvious haram)''

    (Lastly), And if (the festival of Hindu's) is (simply) for amusing and games (not a Hindu faith festival), and guards himself from it, neither participates in it himself, nor observes it, and does not sell those items of amusement or playthings of theirs (Hindu's) which are forbidden, then (in such circumstances) it is permissible, however, it is still inappropriate, for their congregations are always mahal e l'ian (sites of imprecation and condemnation), hence, virtue and safety is in distancing from it, for this reason the 'Ulama' (righteous scholars) have said, when passing their (immoral and debauched) sites then one should leave hurriedly.

    It is (clarified) in Ghunyah Dhaw'ul-Ahkam, then in Fathu'l-'ayni and then in Tahtawi:

    'They are sites of imprecations prevailing (over them) at all times, hence, there is no doubt that to stay in all such places is makruh (unrestrictedly reprehensible), rather whenever one has to pass nearby such places, he should do so in a rush, sprinting by, and hence as such we find reported in our (sacred) traditions.'4

    And, if he himself participates, or observes the spectacle, or sells those items of pleasure (of Hindu's and or is symbolic of their faith) which are mamnu' (forbidden, hence, in violation of shari'ah) then is itself a sin and impermissible.

    It is (expounded upon) in Durr al-Mukhtar:

    ' Fatawa Hindiyyah, Kitab'ul-Karahiyyah, Chapter 14, Nurani Kutub Khanah, Peshawar, Volume 5 page 346.

    ' Radd'ul-Muhtar, with reference to Bahr ar-Ra'iq, Kitab'us-Salat, matlab tukrihu's-salatu fi'l-kanisati, Dar Ihya' at-Turath al-'Arabiyy, Beirut, Volume 1 page 254.

    ' Ibid
    4 Ibid

    'We have elaborated earlier, consolidating (our legal rule) with (that of) an-Nahr'ul-Fa'iq, indeed, that which itself precisely incorporates a sin, the sale of it is makruh tahriman otherwise its (sale) is tanzihan.'

    It is also (elaborated) in Fatawa 'Alamgīri,

    'When a Muslim decides to enter Dar'ul-harb (land of abode of non-Muslims with which Muslims are at war with i.e. abode of disbelievers or kufr, where disbelief or disbelievers are predominant, rule) peacefully for trade purposes, and accompanying him is his horse and arms, and he intends not to sell these there, then he should not be prevented (from doing so).'

    Yes, there is one situation of absolute permissibility, which is this, that a 'Alim (righteous scholar) goes there (to such Hindu festivals, religious or otherwise, with the intention) to invite people to Islam, (obviously only) when he is competent to do so, such a deed is hasan (good) and mahmud (commendable), even though it may be their religious festival. Going as such is established many a time from the Prophet, <!--[if !vml]--><!--[endif]-->Salla Allahu ta'ala 'alayhi wa Sallam<!--[endif]-->, himself.

    The festive seasons (during the Prophetic era) of the mushrikin (idolaters) were also (occasions of) pronouncements of shirk...in their labbayka (talbiyya: ), they would say:

    'You have no partner, but that partner, who You possess (control), and he does not own (control) You.'

    When those foolish (idolaters) would reach 'la sharika laka' (You have no partner ' in their pronouncements) the Messenger of Allah, <!--[if !vml]--><!--[endif]-->Salla Allahu ta'ala 'alayhi wa Sallam<!--[endif]-->, would (interupt and) say:

    'way'lakum qattu, qattu' (woe unto you, enough, enough,)

    That is, do not proceed further with istithna' (exceptions, over 'You have no partner').'

    wa Allahu, ta'ala a'alam

    (And Allah, the Most Sublime, is All-Knowing.)

    ' Durr al-Mukhtar, Kitab al-hazar w'al-ibahah, faslun f'il-bay'i, Matba'a Mujtaba'iy, Delhi, Volume 2 page 247.
    ' Fatawa Hindiyya, Kitab'us-Siyar, Seventh Chapter, Nurani Kutub Khanah, Peshawar, Volume 2 page 233.
    ' Sahih Muslim, Kitab'ul-Hajj, Bab at-Talbiyati wa sifatiha wa waqtiha, a close wording to the above. Hadith no. 2711 on the authority of Ibn 'Abbas, Allah be pleased with them both.

  3. The Emir

    The Emir Well-Known Member

    You really have no shame in peddling lies about Scholars and Muftis and I suspect (and have evidence but will not provide as it compromises someone close to you) you are from Leicester and carry the same blood as the person you are trying to defend. Am I not right???

    You hide by deceit and fraud and refuse to accept that FUREC is a kufri organisation. What you have posted does not remove the charge of kufr against Jilani Miya - it is yet another attempt to wriggle out instead of repenting as he should have done years ago. And that is why he continues five years after this started to look for people and anything that will give him the oppurtunity to say that he has been cleared by Muftis. His behaviour simply shows that he still isn't satisfied that he has been cleared.

    You have no fatwa which says that FUREC doesn't contain kufr and the reply from Tajus Sharia is a sleight of hand - the 'mustafti' doesn't ask about Jilani Miya's kufr but his own position - there is no charge on the mustafti not Jilani Miya and what I wrote above doesn't change.

    FUREC contains numerous kufrs and that is why Jilani Miya resigned from it after lieing to everyone about his involvemnet. In the end he will never be cleared until he repents despite all his antics which do nothing but bring shame and embarassment on him. I will again remind you of his lies - why lie when you have nothing to hide and you believe that you have done nothing wrong??

    Posted earlier:

    Surely the next istifta should be to any Mufti Gulamemadni wishes that 'what is the ruling in Sharia of a Shaykh of Tariqat who prints and publishes outrageous and blatant lies?' Enjoy!

    "Jilani Miya in the Declaration of Truth (Urdu) published by the Spiritual Foundation, Lucknow in the month of Safar 1427 being March 2006 of which 5000 copies were printed writes on page 7:

    ‘I was made a member of the Apex Body of this organisation whereas all my attention and my entire schedule were spent on the construction and organisation of Jamiya Sufiya in Kichocha Sharif and Spiritual Camps.’ (Page 7 Declaration of Truth)

    On page 8 Jilani Miya writes

    ‘I have such a busy schedule that up until now I have been unable to attend any function or programme of FUREC and neither have I been able to carry out any work of the UP chapter of FUREC.’ (Page 8 Declaration of Truth).

    It should be borne in mind that Jilani Miya wrote the above in the Declaration of Truth in March 2006.

    In addition Jilani Miya has stated in the video CD that he recorded in Blackburn on 30 May 2006 when discussing the alleged amendment to FUREC’s constitution that:

    ‘…near to me FUREC has no importance.’

    From the above printed and recorded words of Jilani Miya we can establish three assertions:

    1.Jilani Miya has not attended any of FUREC’s functions or programmes.
    2.All his attention and time has been spent on constructing Jamiya Sufiya and organising Spiritual Camps.
    3.Jilani Miya doesn’t give any importance to FUREC and therefore presumably would not give any financial contribution to it.
    This is what Jilani Miya would like us to believe. This is what he has both printed in the Declaration of Truth and recorded on a video CD both of which have been distributed by him to Sunni Muslims around the world including our Scholars and Imams.

    However these claims are blatant and shameful lies. The truth and reality are entirely the opposite of what Jilani Miya has written and recorded.

    1. The January 2005 monthly bulletin of FUREC named ‘U-Can Change the World’ records the following on page 3:

    ‘I am delighted to learn that under the leadership of one of the Founder Apex Council member of FUREC, H.H.S.M. Jilani Ashraf, the U.P. Chapter of FUREC is being launched on 24 November 2004 at Lucknow. The event is also marked by a Seminar jointly organized by FUREC and Spiritual Foundation founded by H.H.S.M. Jilani Ashraf.
    True to the spirit of universality the seminar also includes a few international participants. I learn that the U.P. Chapter of FUREC in close collaboration with the Spiritual Foundation will work on spiritual matters as well as education and health care for poor.
    I wish the Seminar, the U.P. Chapter of FUREC and Spiritual Foundation many successes in their endeavours.
    Dr. A.P.J. Abdul Kalam
    New Delhi 22-11-2004’ (Page 3 U-Can Change the World, January 2005)

    As you will note a function to launch the UP Chapter of FUREC was organised to take place on 24 November 2004. Therefore, has Jilani Miya been telling the truth or did this function actually take place and as a result prove that he has unashamedly lied to the Sunni Muslim community? Read the words yourself as described in the January 2005 monthly magazine:

    ‘On the 24th of November 2004, a function was held in Lucknow to launch the Uttar Pradesh chapter of FUREC at the initiative of Hadrat Syed Muhammad Jilani Ashraf sahib. Speaking at the function were religious people from different faiths Father Albert D’Souza, Bishop Lucknow, Swami Mukti Nathanand of R. K. Mission and Mahant Ram Chander Das were some of them. The function was a gentle expression of the desire for unity amongst all those present. If one of the spiritual leaders said that the greatest dharma is humaneness, another said that Lucknow has always lived amicably with people from all folds, perhaps because of its strong Sufi influence. The Mayor of Lucknow, Mr. S. C. Rai gave a very erudite speech calling for unity in Lucknow which he said, (in the form of an Urdu couplet), is not just a city of tombs and minarets, or gardens and grounds, but is a city where cupid plays in gay abandon and in its lanes are angels and fairies. No wonder then that the Hadrat sahib calling for action said, (again in a couplet) that the world was listening very carefully, we ourselves, (those speaking) slept, telling the story.’ (Page 4 U-Can Change the World, January 2005)

    Jilani Miya also gave a speech at this meeting which is recorded in English where he states inter alia the following:

    ‘Friends: Today Faquir Ashrafi is not on the dais to deliver lecture but will be glad to listen to the learned speakers. Briefing my address I would say that this seminar which is an attempt to bring different religious leaders at one platform to deliberate on the unity of all religions and enlightened citizenship can be termed as a step forward towards implementation of decisions taken during the presence of His Excellency, Dr. APJ Abdul Kalam in Surat in October last year. HH Acharya Mahaprajna has been a guiding force and helping us in all spheres of our activities. Mr. Y.S Rajan’s advice from time to time has been a great asset for us.
    Surat Spiritual Declaration was the outcome of a conclave of all religious leaders held at Surat in October 2003. The leaders had the privilege to have had an inter action with His Excellency President of India, Dr. APJ Abdul Kalam also. A review meeting of the decisions taken during the conclave was held in New Delhi in June, 2004 and that gave birth to the Foundation of Unity of Religions and Enlightened Citizenship (FUREC). It was formally announced at Rashtrapati Bhawan.
    Today, the 24th November, 2004, is the inaugural day of UP Chapter of FUREC which has been entrusted to Spiritual Foundation and the Foundation feels pleasure to have an august audience on the day of its inauguration.’ (Page 6 U-Can Change the World, January 2005).

    It is abundantly clear from the above quoted paragraphs from FUREC’s own magazine which also contains photographic evidence that Jilani Miya has not only attended a programme of FUREC but has actually organised it and has without any doubt lied in the Declaration of Truth when he said that ‘I have such a busy schedule that up until now I have been unable to attend any function or programme of FUREC and neither have I been able to carry out any work of the UP chapter of FUREC.’Jilani Miya actually arranged for the launch of the UP Chapter of FUREC for which he was thanked in advance by the President of India contrary to what he has written and distributed to the Sunni Muslim community.

    He has also allowed religious leaders of other faiths a platform to espouse their views on unity of religions and has expressed his gladness at the chance to listen to such ‘learned speakers’ and as a result clearly endorsed the aims and objectives of FUREC and the Surat spiritual Declaration.

    2. Jilani Miya also arranged another programme of FUREC between 22 and 26 May 2005. The Spiritual Foundation in association with FUREC organised a medical camp at Lucknow for a five day period under the FUREC banner.

    Why is Jilani Miya writing he has never attended any function or programme of FUREC when he is not only attending and participating but actually arranging these functions???

    3. On 2 August 2005 a ‘morning dedicated to Surat Spiritual Declaration’ was held to award H H Acharya Mahaprajna the ‘National Award for Communal Harmony.’ Two other awards were also presented on the same date. ‘One was to the Akhil Bharatiya Rachnatmak Samaj led by Dr Nirmala Deshpandey and the other was to Sh Rama Shanker Singh who received the Kabir Puraskar for taking his life to bringing communal harmony.’ (Page 3 U-Can Change the World, September 2005.

    At this meeting many people were present including the Prime Minister of India as well as LK Advani, a leader of the BJP. In the September monthly magazine on page 7 under the heading ‘Gratitude’ the following is recorded:

    ‘Empowering FUREC with the power to function, act (kriya) are the following people to whom we convey our heartfelt thanks and sincere appreciation for their generous donation’

    And thereafter the following individuals and organisations are listed as donors:

    Dr A P J Abdul Kalam, Spiritual Foundation, Swami Jitamanandaji, Dr J S Neki, Mr M L Sethia, Dhram Chand Bhaid Kalyas Nyas and Shri Prasad Chandran. (Page 7 U-Can Change the World, September 2005).

    Therefore when Jilani Miya said that ‘near to me FUREC has no importance’ he was again lying. It has enough importance for him to contribute financially through Spiritual Foundation! We must also question whether this money was Jilani Miya’s personal wealth or was raised from Muslims for a charitable cause and misused in this way?

    What we can conclude based on the information provided by FUREC is that when Jilani Miya wrote that he had not attended a single function or programme of FUREC, he had actually arranged two programmes and financially contributed to one another!

    Even more damaging for Jilani Miya is that he has lied to Sunni Muslims including Sunni Scholars who he has sought edicts from, and foolishly published and printed this lie in huge numbers.
  4. ghulamemadni

    ghulamemadni New Member

    sorry your latest post is just copy and paste. And remember Hazrat Shaikhul Islam is a fareeq in this matter as he has written Jilani Mian to be a kaafir in Sahife Hidayat, and since jamia Ashraf is under the influnce of those who are signaturies of the kufr allegation, thus its fatwa cannot be considered to be from the third party.

    Ring Jamia Ashraf and ask "What has happened to Razaul Haq and Moulana Qamar Ashrafi". They have been kicked out from the insitution never mind their fatwa.
  5. ghulamemadni

    ghulamemadni New Member

    Subhanallah, the reason i did not give importance to your earlier post is because it is a shame towards usool al shariah. Lets refute your illogical questions to one by one:

    And what does the scan prove???? No mention of FUREC or that any documents relating to FUREC have been attached or read or agrred with/disagreed?

    What does Tajush Shariah allowing the printing and publishing of Hazrat Jilani Mian's signature signifies? Sawarimul Hindia is a markazi book of Ahle Sunnah Wal Jamaat, which has signatures from Shairbeshe Ahle Sunnat till Muhaddise Azam hind (and many more) agaisnt the scholars of deoband. How can a kaafir be a witness and signatury, when the Quran says "وَلَا تَقۡبَلُواْ لَهُمۡ شَہَـٰدَةً أَبَدً۬ا*ۚ وَأُوْلَـٰٓٮِٕكَ هُمُ ٱلۡفَـٰسِقُونَ

    The Mustafti sent all the documents to Tajush Shariah in that Istifta regarding Furec, and he did not reply "Remove the signature of Jilani Mian, as he has become a Kaafir, according to Sahife Hidayat or Ashraful Fatawa", (as he had all of them with him sent by Allama Maghribi). The Mustafti clarifies that reason for the istifta was that no deobandi can say that a how authentic your book is, which has a signature of a kafir? Your example in the above post is illogical and agaisnt the basic knowledge and principles of Shariah. This is why i was compelled to avoid it. Here is the link in Urdu regarding his explanation:


    Is there anything according to you/Jilani Miya wrong with FUREC?

    This is the difference between me and you. You want to call Jilani Mian kaafir based on what you think and I say he is a Mu'min based on what scholars of great authenticity. The fact that Tajush Shariah allowed the sign of Jilani mian means they are not relgiously boycotting him nor think he is kaafir or even faasiq for his sign to be considerd invalid.

    Or are you arguing that Jilani Miya has done 'tauba'?

    Yes I am sure he does Tawba everyday in his Salah, but the Tauba of iman, nikah and bait you are asking for is not required, ACCORDING TO Hazrat Khwaja Muzaffar Hussain Sahab (Teacher of Tajush Shariah and Ghazie al Millat)

    May Allah give you guidance and help to respect Sa'daat and leave this matter upon the elders of the great Khanwade Ashrafia and Khanwade Rizvia to deal with.

    Now Please answer my queries in my last post, and do not avoid them. I will not answer yours unless you answer my first.
  6. The Emir

    The Emir Well-Known Member


    ANSWER : In Islamic Sharia accepting the sacred days of non Muslims’ as sacred and important, and from a practical viewpoint showing any reverence for these days is not permitted and FUREC’s aims and objectives state the application and implementation of the Surat Spiritual Declaration.

    The Surat Spiritual Declaration’s project number 1 states:

    ‘Every month in all parts of India there can be a multi-religious gathering to convey the core message attempted in the prayer of peace and about the basic truths contained in various religions. Such a prayer should be preceded by prayers from all religions practised in that part of the country by respective religious and spiritual leaders in the presence of the people. Each month the day selected could be a holy day from one religion: Islam, Hindu, Christianity, Sikh, Parsi, Jain, Buddhist etc. Regular conduct of such meetings by all religious leaders and people from different religions respecting holy days of other religions will send a powerful message. If possible such gatherings can take place at the religious places where all persons from other religions also can gather on that day. People should also exchange pleasantries and sweets during these meetings, as is the practice in some parts of the country where unity of minds prevails.’

    This project is also described in the Memorandum of Association at part (d) as:

    ‘To organize multi religious functions to popularise joint celebration of religious festivals. Common community Kitchens and multi religious prayers.’

    When Muslims participate with non Muslims in the celebration of their sacred festivals and days and pray together, popularise their religious message and celebrate their festivals in a joint and unified way, it is obvious that from a practical point of view they will be accepting of non Muslim festivals and sacred days in a respectful manner whereas the display of respect and acceptance of non Muslim religious days and festivals is from a Sharia viewpoint infidelity (kufr).

    Meeting with non Muslims to celebrate their sacred days is proof of the belief that they are being regarded as good and stating or believing non Muslim sacred days to be good is from a Sharia viewpoint infidelity.

    If for the protection of human rights, upholding peace and harmony for all, ending national and international terrorism and prevention of intoxicants and smuggling; all religions get together on one platform this is not infidelity, neither is it a sin – But in this unity there is no scope or capacity for a Muslim to respect or accept any other religions’ belief.

    But in the Surat Spiritual Declaration’s project number 2 it is stated:
    ‘These efforts will elevate religions in the minds of the people and the nation will benefit.’

    It can be concluded from this that your organisation’s aim is to strive to increase the respect and reverence of other religions in people’s hearts. From this it can be seen that ‘respect of religions’ means reverence of religions and therefore ‘unity of religions’ means exactly that and ‘acceptance of religions’ means recognition and acceptance.

    Unity, respect and acceptance of religions are words which are clear and obvious and do not need the support of other words to elucidate their meanings. And to therefore conclude that unity of religion means unity of the followers of religion in common issues, acceptance of religion means the acceptance of the followers of religion to exist, respect of religions means the respect of the followers of religion is not allowed in Islamic Law because an explanation of obvious and plain words is not acceptable.

    Also ‘unity of religions’, unity of faith or unification/togetherness of religions from the viewpoint of Sharia and the subject of infidelity are words which are relevant and clear; therefore whenever they are spoken and used in relation to an un-Islamic view, then the pre-determined meaning will be used as the definition and giving these words any another meaning you approve of will not be correct.

    For example, if a Muslim, Allah forbid states that ‘I accept both infidelity and Islam’, then under Sharia he will be declared an infidel and his explanation that by this what I mean is that ‘I accept the right of existence of both Muslims and Non-Muslims’ will not be accepted in Sharia, even if his explanation is that by infidelity I meant those who are infidels and by Islam I meant those who are Muslims such as Hadrat Muhaddis e Azam in his poetry said:

    Kufr se Kufre bagal geer nazar aata he
    (We view infidels standing shoulder to shoulder with infidels)

    Unity of religions is a term of infidelity and therefore making this statement from the Sharia’s viewpoint brings a charge of infidelity on you even if you state that your intention is the unity of followers of religion in shared or common issues of concern. Because uttering a plainly obvious word of infidelity will lead to one being declared an infidel – no change is allowed to the obvious meaning and neither will the belief in the heart will be taken into account.

    Sharia deals with actions that are seen and observed.

    For example, if a Muslim, Allah forbid prostrates before an idol, Sharia will look at his actions and declare him a polytheist and an infidel even if he were to state that he believes that worshipping an idol is polytheism and that he was not worshipping the idol but beyond the idol he was worshipping God. Sharia will not accept this explanation from him.

    It is with huge regret that I am having to write that I have read with great care and attention the Memorandum of FUREC, the SSD and all the documents that you provided and I have tried very hard to find a Sharia angle where the Islamic verdict of infidelity does not fall upon you because it is very important for a Mufti that as far as possible he refrains from declaring an edict of infidelity on a Muslim and restrains himself to the end limit. However, it is with regret, a hundred times with regret that I have to say that I have found no way out in Sharia for you.

    In fact in your organisation’s aims and objectives I found the establishment of multi religious gatherings to celebrate festivals, multi religious prayers on various religious sacred days, creating multi-religious harmony, spreading universal spiritual values, using media and technology to publicise the unity of religions message, creating and sending educational material for the teaching and understanding of universal spiritual values to educational establishments, creating universal brotherhood among religions, jointly celebrating other religions festivals and sacred days and exchanging gifts and presents, accepting all religions as beautiful gardens, declaring all religions as places of harmony, calling religions flower gardens [flower beds], accepting the universal truth of all religions, striving to develop respect in people’s hearts for all religions, sending and enrolling our children to other religions’ education centres for education and training in order to develop the thinking in their minds that every religion has equality, honesty and truth.

    It is blatantly obvious that the above is not designed to deal with common concerns and issues of a nation but is linked only to religions and religious practice and values. Therefore your comment that by unity of religions you mean the unity of followers of religions in common concerns and issues of a nation, by respect of religions you mean having regard for the rights of followers of religions and by acceptance of religions you mean the right of other religions’ followers to exist is against the obvious meanings which cannot be accepted.
    The conclusion therefore is; that stating the obvious and outright words of infidelity and endorsing the non Islamic values and actions means the charge of infidelity devolves upon you.

    I am a humble servant of the family of the Prophet Muhammad (Peace be Upon Him) and an ordinary servant of the Prophet’s religion. However, the relationship of faith supercedes all other relationships. The Prophet Muhammad’s (Peace be Upon Him) call is ‘ad-din un –nasiha’ – Islam wholly wishes well.

    Therefore my well wished advice to you is that as you are under a charge of infidelity in Sharia, you should repent and declare your renewal of faith and sacrifice all your worldly gains and possessions for the command of Mustafa’s (Peace be Upon Him) Sharia and preciously save your faith. It is in this course of action that there is success in this world and in the hereafter.

    Raza ul Haq Ashrafi Raj Mahalli
    Shaykh ul Hadith & Chief Mufti Jame Ashraf
    Dargah Kichoccha Sharif
    District Ambedkar Nagar

    20 Muharram ul Haram – 19 February 2006

    I am satisfied with the above answer
    Muhammad Shahbuddin Ashrafi
  7. The Emir

    The Emir Well-Known Member

    Also it should be noted that there is no 'fatwa' from Hazrat Madani Miya - he has given his ruling that Jilani Miya is under a charge of Kufr similar to Hazrat Zia-ul-Mustufa (whose Darul Ifta has actually given a fatwa of kufr in writing) as has Mufti Nizamuddin of Jamia Ashrafia Mubarakpur.

    The fatwa of kufr given to Jilani Miya to his own question by the Mufti of Jame Ashraf Kicchocha Sharif is set out below with the original scanned here:


    This fatwa actually deals with the contents of FUREC and the Spiritual Declaration which Jilani Miya signed.

    Before reading the translation of the fatwa, you should read the background to this fatwa and how Jilani Miya tried to conceal it!!


    Jilani Mia in his book the Declaration of Truth and on his Spiritual Foundation website has provided a list of those Muftis who he has fraudulently obtained edicts (fatwas) from which he has then used to claim that he has been declared innocent of all Sharia charges against him.

    However, what Jilani Mia has not included is the edict given to him on his own questionnaire by the Chief Mufti and Shaykh ul Hadith of Jame Ashraf in Kicchocha Sharif, Mufti Raza ul Haq Ashrafi which we have made available to our readers.

    The background to Mufti Raza ul Haq Ashrafi’s answer is that when Jilani Miya sent his questionnaire to the Darul Ifta at Jame Ashraf, Mufti Raza ul Haq Ashrafi was also given material containing information on FUREC, its aims and objectives, its constitution and the Surat Spiritual Declaration.

    As a result of these documents being available as well as independent research being carried out, when Mufti Raza ul Haq Ashrafi answered Jilani Mia’s question he did so in light of the actual truth and did not fall prey to the deception which Jilani Mia carried out on the other Muftis by concealing the truth. And therefore when Mufti Raza ul Haq Ashrafi gave his answer he did so with all the relevant knowledge which therefore meant that he declared Jilani Mia an infidel (Kafir).

    Mufti Raza ul Haq Ashrafi in his commentary on his edict which will shortly be available on this site states that the reason he did not fall prey to the deception of Jilani Miya was because at the time he was asked for an edict by Jilani Mia, he was aware of the actual truth and when a Mufti becomes aware of all the truthful facts and the actual circumstances it becomes obligatory (wajib) on the Mufti to provide an answer on what he is aware of; and not only on the question that has been asked especially when the question is trying to conceal the truth. And that is why the edict of Jame Ashraf is based on the actual truth and is absolutely in accordance with Sharia.

    Jilani Mia’s questionnaire to the Muftis is included and the answer from Mufti Raza ul Haq Ashrafi is included both in its original form and its translation.

    What is worth noting is Jilani Mia’s statement in his questionnaire that it was decided:

    ‘From the very first day of its establishment it was clarified that the meaning of ‘unity of religions’ is not to merge religions with any other religion nor the acceptance of religions but it is the ‘unity of the followers of religions’ to work jointly in the issues of the country.’ (Declaration of truth page 23)

    This is a blatant lie as the Surat Spiritual Declaration was signed in October 2003 and FUREC was formed in June 2004. For 9 months without any clarification Jilani Mia was a signed up supporter of the Surat Spiritual Declaration which contains numerous statements of infidelity.

    In addition, Jilani Mia has stated that an amendment to the constitution had been made in October 2005 which is another lie as the constitution had not been amended in February 2006 which along with the other lies in his questionnaire to the Darul Iftas’ has been comprehensively dealt with by Gazi e Millat Sayyad Muhammad Hashmi Miya Ashrafi Jilani in his book ‘Light of Truth.’

    Carefully read the edict of Jame Ashraf and you will see why Jilani Mia has not included this with all the other edicts he has been so happy to publish and place on his website. Indeed Shaykh al Islam Hadrat Sayyad Muhammad Madani Ashrafi Jilani in praise of Mufti Raza ul Haq Ashrafi’s edict writes that:

    ‘…with the exception of the Chief Mufti of Jame Ashraf all the other Muftis paid heed to the wishes of Jilani Mia and gave answers according to the questions put to them…but the Mufti of Jame Ashraf did not do this. Instead he conducted his own research and carried out enquiries into the constitution of FUREC and the Surat Spiritual Declaration. He fully understood the cleverness that had been displayed in the questionnaire and as a result he saw it as his responsibility in Sharia to leave the circumstances described in the questionnaire to one side and answer the question based on the actual circumstances and truth. And then displaying his knowledge, honesty and integrity and displaying his boldness in his faith he gave an edict of infidelity on Jilani Mia. After reading Jame Ashraf’s edict Jilani Mia grew extremely restless and became engaged in writing nonsense and did not include this edict with the other self preferring edicts in his pamphlet which he published and named ‘Declaration of Truth’.

    The questionnaire that was sent to Jame Ashraf and its answer were both included in a file sent to me by Jilani Mia himself. It was at that time I became aware of the existence of this edict. The Mufti of Jame Ashraf has followed the actions of the most learned Scholars of Islam and it is for this reason that I congratulate from the depths of my heart the Chief Mufti of Jame Ashraf, its founder Hadrat Shaykh e Azam and its heart and soul Qaid e Millat [Hadrat Sayyad Mehmud Ashraf Ashrafi Jilani]’ (Page 102 Sahifa-e-Hidayah)
  8. The Emir

    The Emir Well-Known Member

    And what does the scan prove???? No mention of FUREC or that any documents relating to FUREC have been attached or read or agrred with/disagreed? I answered your point earier - read it again in case you are having problems understanding it:

    As for your odd proof it changes nothing against Jilani Miya. For example if a wahhabi signed a fatwa by a Sunni against the qadianis that does not make him a sunni. And if I was to say that it was 'a good deed' to get the wahhabi to sign the fatwa because others who follow this wahhabi or were unaware of the wahhabis actual beliefs would also lend their support to the fatwa then how does that make the wahhabi a Sunni??? Jilani Miya's example is exactly the same. Saying his signature is a good deed makes not a jot of difference and neither does it clear of the fatwa of kufr against him. Jilani Miya and his chamches deceitful attempts change nothing.

    Also can you clarify what you are arguing:

    1. Is there anything according to you/Jilani Miya wrong with FUREC?

    2. Or are you arguing that Jilani Miya has done 'tauba'?
  9. ghulamemadni

    ghulamemadni New Member

    sorry i m not that it literate, can someone please tell me how make the pictures small, please pm me
  10. ghulamemadni

    ghulamemadni New Member

    Well both Maraqi and Emir have been using their own faulted reasonings to legitmate the allegation of Kufr, and in the process slandering the family of the Prophet (peace be upon him) as well as myself. My scanner arrived late so i became a liar again, according to them. I present you the book but the readers of this forum must keep several points in their minds:

    1) There should not be an attitude like Zakir Naik, and use your own reasoning to define a statement. This fatwa must be refuted by the person who has authorised it.

    2) Since there was an alleged fatwa on Hazrat Jilani mian, and those who propagated this fatwa demanded a 'Religious Boycott". Since almost 99% of the scholars have not agreed with this edict, there stance is clear as they continue to meet with Hazrat Jilani Mian, from Hazrat Subhani Mian to Mufti Farooq Rizvi (Sadar Mufti Manzare Islam Bareili Shareef)

    3) Simply if you consider Jilani Mian misguided and kaafir (may Allah forbid), then its your stance, why do you feel the need to enforce it on everyone? Hazrat Alau ul Haq Pandavi (Murshid of Makhdum Ashraf) was agaisnt Muhiyuddin ibn Arabi while his mureed favoured him. There is nothing wrong in Ikhtilaaf, but one must refrain from Mukhaalifat

    4) Lastly, I just came here, since this a ahle sunna wal jama forum to post a speech of the grandson of Muhadise azam hind. The mods deleted it, as someone might have provided them with wrong information. I posted it again, and it all became clear who the culprit was. This whole fitna of hatred was not started by me, but them.

    This is my stance, and here are the links:

    Cover of the Markazi book:


    Istifta, Fatwa and all the documents from both sides sent to Tajush Sharia


    And who is "Hazrat Allama Irshad Maghrabi Rizvi", he is one the closests to Tajush Shariah. You have his number but he visits his house on regular basis. He is an Allama, writer and Mureed and Khalifa of Mufite Azam Hind. Here is number again for any objective readers to get more info 00919414355399.

    Jazakallah more info tomorrow. I need to go for my job. take care and respect sayeds.
  11. As for your nonsense, "we" refers to Ahle Sunnah, who don't accept Jilani Baba's kufr. So don't come here with your arrogant balderdash and start lecturing me.

    Because you promised to have your scanner 2-3 Wednesdays ago and now you are saying it is coming tomorrow. Obviously, you're making up lies and stalling.
  12. I have Hadrat Shehzada Hudur Sayyidi Taj us-Shariah Hadrat Mukarram Mu`azzam Qibla Allama Asjad Rida Khan (maddazillahul aali)'s email in front of me.

    I also have Hadrat Taj us-Shariah (damat barakatahum ul aalia)'s phone number and Hadrat Shehzada Hudur Taj us-Shariah (maddazillahu aali).

    I am ready to contact them with clarification.
  13. ghulamemadni

    ghulamemadni New Member

    Who are "we". Do not assume people agree with you because they don't. And anyway you seem to always announce your last post and then again return. Anyway welcome for a sober discussion, and just keep the ayaat tatheer in your mind.

    "We don't care about what Molvi Irshad Maghrabi said. We don't even know who he is"

    Anyone who doesnt agree with your fatwa, this is the treatement. Lets see what you will have to say about Tajush Shariah and His respected Ustaad Hazrat Khwaja Muzaffar Hussain Sahab. (as soon as i upload it).

    I am sure you are an influential person, and since you got upset last time I mentioned about your shaykh, eventhough I clarified that your behaviour does not reflect your shaykh's teachings, I apologise for any indirect disrespect you might have felt about your esteemed shaykh. But you are the first mureed who threatens to involve his peer, as I have only heard the vica-versa. Anyway I will see you tomorrow through PC.
  14. You're obviously stalling and without a response other than "Well my molvi said this, my molvi said that". We don't care about what Molvi Irshad Maghrabi said. We don't even know who he is.

    I can and will contact Bareilly Shareef. I have contacts
  15. ghulamemadni

    ghulamemadni New Member

    Inshalla My scanner shall arrive tomorrow, but the latest on sat. (sorry i am a ghareeb man). This is not over by any means. However, it must be noted by the objective readers that I will make my points without slandering and with the utmost respect.
  16. Assalaaamu 'Alaykum

    Very well .. both sides are brawling desperately .. (Though neither of u giving any scanned pages or any proofs)

    This brawlin over may go on for decades ..!

    Even i do not like those Duniyadaar Molwis who are too modernists to propagate the real Sunni and Islami teachings .. But I hate those people even more who try to spray filth on the Character of those Ulama who are really good ..!!

    So please give ample proofs before u text in ..!

  17. The Emir

    The Emir Well-Known Member


    Now change the first word 'religions' to Christianity, Judaism, Sikhism, hinduism, Buddhism etc etc and change the plural words to a singular and you will begin to see where the problem is - Jilani Miya believes Hinduism is like an exquisite garden...a place full of surprassing beauty....like a sacred grove filled with beautiful birds...a beautiful garden...whereas we sunnis believe that Hinduism is evil, ugly and will lead you to Hell for an eternal period.

    Is this what you believe ghulamemadni as well since you are defending it?
  18. The Emir

    The Emir Well-Known Member

    In the book Allama Irshad Maghrabi does an Istifta on the matter that Hazrat Jilani Mian has been allegedly called a Kafir (astagfirullah), and What is the hukm to take a signature of a kafir on this important book, specially when he knew.

    Alhamdulillah, as I have the book with me at the moment, it also answers your question regarding using Muftis who do not know anything about furec. Allama Maghribi in fact sent 31 documents with the istifta from both parties which includes (furec's consitution, Ashraful Fatawa and Izahare haq etc). In the book he clearly mentions it.

    Hazrat Tajush Shariah referred to printing, publishing and distriuting the signature/article as "Kaare Khair" (good work), to which Allama Maghrabi writes that to call the publishing and distributing of the signature of a Kafir can never be called a "kaare khair", hence this indicates that Tajush Shariah does not agree with the kufr allegation despite having all documents. Allama Maghrabi writes that Muhaddithe Kabir also said the same words verbally (also mentioned in the book).

    More deceit!!!

    Where is the istifta of this Mowlana and where is Taj us Sharia Azhari Miya's reply stating that there is nothing wrong with FUREC and Jilani Miya is a free man???? You are slandering Azhari Miya as he wouldn't in a million years say that there is nothing wrong with FUREC.

    As for your odd proof it changes nothing against Jilani Miya. For example if a wahhabi signed a fatwa by a Sunni against the qadianis that does not make him a sunni. And if I was to say that it was 'a good deed' to get the wahhabi to sign the fatwa because others who follow this wahhabi or were unaware of the wahhabis actual beliefs would also lend their support to the fatwa then how does that make the wahhabi a Sunni??? Jilani Miya's example is exactly the same. Saying his signature is a good deed makes not a jot of difference and neither does it clear of the fatwa of kufr against him. Jilani Miya and his chamches deceitful attempts change nothing.

    As far as Muhaddis e Kabir is concerned then the institution he runs, manages and is in charge of that is Darul Ulum Amjadiya Ghosi has given a fatwa of Kufr against Jilani Miya and Muhaddis e Kabir has been quoted in the book Ashraf-ul-Fatawa published 3 years ago that Jilani Miya has to repent for his kufr - if he had been misquoted or misrepresented he would have written something refuting this. You follow your leader Jilani Miyas sunnah in lying unashamedly.

    Finally when a scholar of the knowledge of Hazrat Madani Miya says Jilani Miya is a kafir which is endorsed by all the senior Ashrafi Shayks then unless he repents he will not be able to free himself of this charge. Ashraf Ali Thanwi, Qasim Nanotvi all gave their excuses and reasons and had teams of chamches everywhere but until this day they are all called kafir - excuses, lies, deceit cannot change the reality!

    No sunni worth his salt will sign a paper like Jilani Miya saying something like this: Religions are like exquisite gardens, places full of surpassing beauty and tranquility, like sacred groves filled with beautiful birds and their melodious songs. Religions are beautiful gardens, but they are islands
  19. ghulamemadni

    ghulamemadni New Member

    subhannalla, i am really enjoying the attention and replies. each point will be addressed in a non-slandering manner. and yes i am gonna get a scanner (yayy). so see you on wednesday. have a tight sleep
  20. As-salamun `ala man ittiba al-huda:

    Dear brother, saying that I'm making an indirect insult upon the status of Hudur Shaykhi wa Sanadi Qibla Ustad-ul-Ulama Sayyidi Taj us-Shariah madda zillahu al-aali by saying that you should send the information from the "Light of Truth" website to Hadrat Sayyidi Taj us-Shariah madda zillahul aali doesn't make much sense to me, with all honesty, dear brother. I'm the khadim of Hadrat Taj us-Shariah madda zillahul aali and I consider Hudur Sayyidi Taj us-Shariah madda zillahu aali wa adam Allahu barakatahum wa furujahum wa fuyudhahum to be the representative of the Ahl`e Sunnat wal Jama`at (Maslak-e-Ala Hazrat), as revived by Sayyidi alaHazrat Azim ul-Barkat nawarAllahu ta`ala marqadahu

    I pray that Allah guides you towards Ahl al-Sunnah. This is my final response, after which I will not engage in discussing this any further

    And Allah and His Messenger knows best

    `Abd al-Rasul Sag-e-Bargah-e-Raza-o-Owaisi
    Abu Abbas al-Ridawi al-Hanafi al-Uwaysi
    The humble servant of Sayyidi Fayz-e-Millat (madda zillahu aali)
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