Habib jifri and co

Discussion in 'General Topics' started by YaMustafa, Nov 21, 2014.

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  1. YaMustafa

    YaMustafa Well-Known Member

    JazakAllah for the correction.
     
    chisti-raza likes this.
  2. chisti-raza

    chisti-raza Veteran

    Yes, they should be approached and corrected with love BUT not condemned if they violate the Shar'iah. We condemn the act but not them. We pray for them and have hope.
     
    Ridawi78692 likes this.
  3. YaMustafa

    YaMustafa Well-Known Member

    Yes saadaat should be respected. But if they violate the shari'ah, like other muslims, then they should be approached, corrected and condemned.
     
  4. snaqshi

    snaqshi Active Member

    بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

    "pir bi syed ka fazlay zati hai kay fisq balkay bad-mazhabi se bi nahee jata, jab tak ma'azallah haddi kufr ko na pohanchay aur syed sahihun nasab behamdillah ta'ala iss say mahfuz rahe ga” [Fatawa Ridhwiyyah, Volume 11]….meaning even if a syed is bad madhab or ghumrah you should respect him
     
  5. Ibn Malik

    Ibn Malik New Member

    Abu Hassan & AbdalQadir - Thanks for your comments on my posts.
     
  6. snaqshi

    snaqshi Active Member

    بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
    maybe you might be so kind as tell me where to dig, but then again don't stop your "business for me":), and in reply to your "give respect and take respect" its not me that goes around berating, making sly remarks or calling sunni brother "idiot", "stupid" or "trolls".

    "when you look in the mirror you see yourself"

    jazakollah khair
     
  7. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    dig the forum. and learn some courtesy yourself. just because you have joined recently, not everybody will drop everything they are doing, just to satisfy your curiosity.

    and remember the old saying you might have heard: "give respect and take respect".

    wa billahi't tawfiq.

    jazakAllahu khayran
     
  8. snaqshi

    snaqshi Active Member

    بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

    I have noticed over a few threads and comments the harshness and berating of Syed Sheikh Yacoubi al idrisi and Sheykh Syed habeeb Ali shah al Jifri, both whom are syeds and have clear unbroken lineage, without getting angry or insulting me or hurling a tirade of abuse at me (especially for brother Abdul Qadir sahib and Abu Hasan al Ridawi et al) can you explain in plain simple words how you view both these people?

    (1) in your view are they ghumrah?
    (2) or according to your knowledge and position are you saying they have gone beyond that and have become kaffir (mazallah) due to there, "not merely 'by association', but as good as abetting. only in this age will people find excuses for a man known as a scholar, praising, laughing, socialising and thoroughly enjoying the company of a perennialist such as hamza yusuf. if that is not passive promotion of the zindiq, what else is?"

    My question are genuine and not fitna mungering..............i would appreciate your answers

    jazakollah khair
     
  9. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    as AQ has said, a lot has been said; i will repeat a few things though.

    in case of yaqubi and hamza it is not merely 'by association', but as good as abetting. only in this age will people find excuses for a man known as a scholar, praising, laughing, socialising and thoroughly enjoying the company of a perennialist such as hamza yusuf. if that is not passive promotion of the zindiq, what else is?

    as for ali jifry - it is sad the way he is going. he has probably taken the adage literally, and want to be 'more catholic than the pope'.

    --
    because, condemning fitna and clarifying issues is the job of faceless; not the job of brave celebrities with hundreds if not thousands of followers. why, yaqubi can show off his skills of isnad narration for hours but cannot spare time to clarify issues or correct these fitan, bid'ah, kufr being spread among muslims?

    inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'un.
     
  10. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    as i said, Ibn Malik, search the archives, please use the search functionality of google and the forum

    that argument (not hammering deos) can pop up from time to time, but the real reason people have issues with the personalities you have mentioned, have been given

    they certainly wouldn't be popular running their fan clubs or showing up on google and youtube searches.

    in just about every western country i have been to, i have seen proper Sunni shuyukh and commoners, both desi as well as non-desi, and even converts. they might not be as easy as locating mark hanson through google, but you still find such people. i'm telling you this sincerely and not exaggerating.

    unfortunately, i've never lived in the uk, so can't answer that question for the uk. perhaps if you or some other members want to locate some such shuyukh, you need to think out of the box and maybe look in places you haven't seen in before and be prepared to accept that honest & sincere people might not be all that popular. of course, there's no rule that says that everyone popular is dishonest or insincere. some great awliyaa attained great fame. some others never did. but as far as the current times are concerned, mostly the popular ones turn out to be insincere (stating an observation, not saying it as a rule)

    just remember that popular or not, the true gems are always rare to find (إنّ الكرامَ قليلُ) - but never impossible if you look hard enough

    as for back home in Arab, desi, and other non-Arab Muslim lands (like Indonesia, Bosnia, Turkey), once again you find a lot of Sunnis who are of the correct creed.
     
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  11. Exposition

    Exposition Active Member

    I think most of us here don't care about arabs condemning deobandis, I for one don't expect arab ulema to be aware or to even come to a decision with the matter, as their is a load of confusion regarding it

    Like brother AQ has said the issues pertain to Defects in creed and kuffar statements /actions
     
  12. Ibn Malik

    Ibn Malik New Member

    Abu Hasan
    Salaaam Abu Hassan, hope you are well and Jazakallah for your reply.

    it is crime by association,
    So this is the principle that is applied, what extent is this applied to as an example there are yearly gateway to divine mercy events organised by JK. That stage is shared by many who I don't need to name and if it is crime by association does that on principle mean one should avoid all of the Shaykhs who appear on that platform and the students of those shaykhs etc?

    AbdalQadir - Salaaam hope you are well.
    I don't want to appear to be putting up straw man arguements I'm not here to play games if thats how it's perceived I'd rather put it down to my own ignorance as I am not a man of knowledge..

    On this very thread brothers have said "he has attended gathering with deo-gandi's and steered clear of saying anything to offend them or highlight their bad aqeedgi"

    your argument that people here only oppose these pesonalities because they haven't blasted the deobandies is seriously unfair and out of touch with reality, as is your insinuation that people here are making an indo-pak cult out of Sunnism.

    Where are the scholars from the west we can turn to then, where are the scholars from the Arab lands we can turn to ?
    Everyone who is known on a public level has some sort of an issue and the ones who don't are Pakistani or few here and there from South Africa and Sri Lanka .. do you understand this point ?
     
  13. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    Ibn Malik, you either haven't followed the forum as well as you claim to have, or you are putting up a bunch of straw men.

    people here have problems with the mentioned personalities (jifry, tim winters, hanson, keller etc.) because of their perennialism and other deviancies in creed and their taking the bay3at at the hands of the christian popes in vatican (figuratively speaking, although nazim's mureed did kiss the pope's hand in his presence) and/or elsewhere (like ali jifry who has taken bay3at at multiple churches the vatican, church of england, the egyptian church, along with wishing a merry christmas to the russian and greek orthodox, etc... hamza yusuf has even become a mureed of the dalai lama in addition to the various christian churches).

    your argument that people here only oppose these pesonalities because they haven't blasted the deobandies is seriously unfair and out of touch with reality, as is your insinuation that people here are making an indo-pak cult out of Sunnism.

    please use the search function of the forum to search what has been said about the personalities you mention.

    also search the forum through google. type ---- [search term] site:sunniport.com ----- on the search bar and google will give you only sunniport results for your searched item. hope that helps. (searching the forum through google is better than using the forum's own search functionality, in my opinion)
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2014
    Ridawi78692 likes this.
  14. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    habib jifry, yaqubi sahib are accused of sitting with hamza, a perennialist; and tim winters of UK. hamza looks at the perennialist murtad hossein nasr with fascinated eyes, is obsequious with him and invites him to places of honour such as zaytuna convocation, etc. there are some blind followers with some shallow learning who will scream: 'association fallacy...'

    we say, yes. it is crime by association, because:

    [​IMG]

    apart from assorted shenanigans of these celebrities - and a general bonhomie with all and sundry.
     
  15. Ibn Malik

    Ibn Malik New Member

    Brother I am aware of what has been said about a number of the Shaykhs online on various websites, forums etc.
    I haven't heard any Shaykh condemn them as bad as people on forums (aware of what Shaykh Asrah said to Shaykh Hamza).

    I think the point of my post is Crystal clear and I want to re-iterate it isn't to cause any arguments, if you understand what I'm trying to say please let me know your thoughts.
     
  16. Ibn Malik

    Ibn Malik New Member

    Thanks brother, I was probably too serious with my question because I emphasised it a few times but I meant it as a rhetorical question.
     
  17. Exposition

    Exposition Active Member

    If one is asking such questions, it's evident they have no been following the forum as they claim to be. I'll leave it to one of the forum veterans to answer
     
  18. agent-x

    agent-x Well-Known Member

    to name but one Mufti zahid hussain hes not a Pakistani
     
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  19. Ibn Malik

    Ibn Malik New Member

    Asaaalm U Alaikum,

    Brothers, please have patience with me and please don't attack me for I come here with sincerity and with genuine intentions to discuss and often anyone with a different opinion is attacked.
    I have been on the forum but have never signed up or never posted as I thought I have nothing to contribute and just enjoyed the threads. However, I now feel I have something to add and have signed up and been authorised by the admin (JazkAllah Khairun).
    This is going to be a long post and I know many on here will disagree but with adab i hope we can have a good discourse about what I have posted without going too off topic.

    The question was asked.

    "Are habib ali jifri, habib umar, osi efa,imam khalid etc reliable scholars?
    Share thoughts with evidence"

    I would say yes they are very reliable scholars and they are ALL sunnis.

    The benchmark from what I have seen so far with regards to is someone a reliable scholar is "They bash Deobandi's and speak out against them"
    If they do they are true sunnis.
    If they don't they are playing both sides of the fence / deviants / sullah kullis / stay away from them etc.

    Correct me if I am wrong but to me after reading several posts over a long period of time this is what seems to be the case? If I am wrong please forgive me.

    Why is it that unless someone speaks out against them, they are not classed as 'Sunni' or 'Reliable' (for the record I ain't down with them one bit, but don;t go out my way to constantly slate them).

    Serious question - I know by now many of you will be looking forward to reply back and attack me but brother I feel I am raising valid point and I am not here to attack you this is genuinely what I believe.

    You ask about Shaykh Ibrahim Osi-Efa - how many on here who are going to reply have ever spoken to him in person? If you haven't you should with yoru questions and record it for all to see.
    How many have attended any of his lessons?
    What has he ever said that contradicts sunni Aqeedah? He is shafi in fiqh / Ashari in Aqeedah & Ba'Aalawi in Tareeqa.
    I have attended many of his talks and listened to many of his vlectures on youtube (not a student of Micro and his seerah videos on youtube are amazing).

    I know many Salafi/Deobandi's who will come to his talks because he isn't a barelvi yet he has never said anything in his speeches that goes against being a Sunni.
    I know of instances where people who are on the fence i.e they think Salafi is the way forward they are not 100% sure or their parents are deobandi/salafi and after hearing the talks they are more receptive to changing their ways and start following a madhab and one of the orthodox sunni schools in Aqeedah and then even open up to Tasawwuf etc.

    What has this individual and Shaykh Habib Ali Jifri/Shaykh Habib Umar/Shaykh Khalid (May Allah be pleased with them all) done or said that is against being classed as a Sunni or reliable?
    Is it because they don't bash Deobandi's? If this is not the case then why are they not classed as sunnis and what is the criteria?
    By the way I am not a Deobandi (I am Hanafi/Marturidi and I follow a Tareeqa and I go Victoria Park Masjid (Barelvi) in Manchester and have been for the last 25 years).

    I have seen on forums the likes of the ones who I have mentioned above getting plastered, the likes of Shaykh Hamza, Shaykh yaqoubi, Shaykh Haroon, Shaykh Ninowy, Shaykh Abdul Hakeem Murad, Jamia Karam (May Allah be pleased with them all) all getting plastered.

    I have to raise the question which Shayukh then in the world today are ok to listen to in the English language?

    Shaykh Monawaar / Shaykh Asrar / (May Allah be pleased with them all) anyone else?
    Are there any non-pakistani Shaykhs that are ok? who are they? BTW I am a big fan of the ones i just mentioned nothing against them so hope no one twists anything.

    Since when did Sunni islam become Pakistani? (yes I am Pakistani) because that’s what it seems to indicate? If I am wrong tell me and explain how one cannot help but to think this?

    Seriously brothers this is my point exactly why have we limited Sunni Islam to be Pakistani?
    My question still stands which non Pakistani shaykh are reliable? and what makes them reliable?

    I am not after a debate because I am not a student of knowledge and with my statements above I may be wrong but you have to understand why it seems like that.

    All the Shaykh I mentioned above have more chance of bringing in non-sunnis because they are not affiliated with certain groups.
    There has been so much bad press about being a barelvi in recent times and i suffered with all that and Alhamdulillah the Shayukh above bought me back on track and that opened up to the works of Alla Hazrat (May Allah be pleased with him) because i realised there is no difference in his works and the works of the scholars before him.
    From a personal story I met someone who I know at a neutral venue (assosciated with salafis thou) at Shaykh Ibrahim talk and the person was laughing and joking that if my family knew I was here they would waste me (meaning that this is a salafi joint, what are you 'barelvi' doing here) anyway, Shaykh Ibrahim went on to talk about Tawassul through the Prophet (Peace and blessings be upon him) whilst alive and after he left this duniya, he then went on to ask the Shaykh about Khtaams and the usual and got a massive shock when he realised it wasn't just Barelvi who do this.
    I can fill this page with many other examples but won't because you get the message.

    That's all I wanted to say - I apologies if I have offended anyone and I have not come here to make enemies and what I have stated is my outlook and my thoughts.
    I hope the replies are not too harsh because I have not attacked anyone or disrespected anyone.
    I have used Shaykh Ibrahim as an example and people will assume I am a student of his and defending him but the truth be tols the Shaykh doesn't even know my name as I do not know him on a personal level.
     
  20. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    we need sunni speakers promoting sunni aqeeda, enough of them

    why so much attention to Khalid hussain. its been going on for years
     

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