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Discussion in 'Aqidah/Kalam' started by loveProphet, Sep 18, 2011.
Can we please have the complete translation? Jzk
also the transliteration
I would appreciate if you could.
If you click the link you can see the name of the book is "hifzul iman ma' bastul bannan". Page 6, published from kutubkhana aziziya, deoband.
If you read urdu you can see ,maulvi thanvi talks about the quote of Shah waliullah muhaddith al dehlavi's (rh) quote about tawaf of graves. Then he talks about"lughwai tawaf" and tawaf done by some people to take benefit ( asar).
If you need complete and exact translation, then insha ALlah it will be posted later.
salams to all
I've just recently joined the forum.
brother sunnistudent could you post an accurate translation of the thanvi quote in english with the references.
And for all those who want to see another hypocrisy of deobandis ,please note that when Maulvi Ashraf ali Thanvi approves the same thing, he becames ' hakim al ummah'!
Please click the link to see Ashraf ali thanvi's view on special people doing tawaf around the graves!
Your right, jazakAllah khair
I can't be bothered with the discussion on that forum, its stupidity
My brother, I am no fool to talk about Shah Waliullah muhadith al dehlawi (rh) unless I have the original book. And this paper was read out at international seminar.
Don't you know their moderator ( some one told me he is a mawlana!) doesn't know the last will of Shah Waliullah muhaddith al dehlawi(rh) and then goes on to talk about his books?
I have mentioned before,I am neither mentioning the book nor I am scaning it , for a simple reason: Shah Sahib (rh) also prohibited it for awaam ( general people) and allowed only for some. In fact he himself did it.
Why can't they read simple book like anfas al arifeen and see how shah sahib used to talk to the angels associated with planets?
What is the purpose of this discussion you are having with them??
1. Imam Ahmed Raza Khan al Qadri (rd) gives the ruling on this matter upon which fatwa is issued by the hanafis of subcontinent.
2. Mawlana Amjad ali aazmi (rh) prohibits doing tawaf of the graves and says some 'khaas"( special people) can do it. Now who are these special people , will not be decalred by deobandis!
Inspite of all this, what part is still not clear?
JazakAllah khair. Btw do you have the reference to Sheikh Waliullah Dihlawi that you said bro?
1.Let's say the fatwa in this issue is based on the ruling from some one who is higher and more learned than Mawlana Amjad Ali Aazmi( Rh) and that is Imam Ahmed Rida Khan al Qadri (Rh). Lets say this is the mufta bihi qawl.
And it states:
When we visit a Wali’s shrine, how do we pray [the fatiha] there and what should be [further] recited in the prayer?
Answer: By Imam Ahmed Raza Khan al Qadri (Rd)
To visit shrines of Awliya, go from the foot of the shrine and stand facing the head of the shrine at a distance of about six feet, and [then] greet them respectfully with a voice neither loud nor quiet, saying: ‘
assalamu `alaykum ya Sayyidi wa-rahmatullahi wa-barakatuh.’ Then recite durud ghawsiyya (Allahumma salli `ala Sayyidina Muhammadin ma’dan al-judi wal karami wa `ala ahlihi wa-sahbihi wa-barik wa-sallim) thrice, al-hamd sharif once, Ayat al-Kursi once, Surat Ikhlas seven times and if there is enough time , recite Surat Mulk and Surat Ya Sin too.
And pray to Allah Ta`ala
Oh Lord, Give as much reward for this recitation as is worthy to your Grace
and not as much that is worthy of my action,
and convey it to your favorite slave as an offering.’
After this du`a for your lawful [and] good desires, make the Wali sleeping in this shrine a means in the court of Allah Ta`ala. And then, after offering the greeting, return in the same way. Don’t touch the shrine or kiss it.
Circumventing it is unanimously forbidden, and prostration is purely haram.
And Allah Ta`ala knows best!
2.In case they need to see some of their in house scholars approving kissing, prostating and tawaf , ask them to read books of Hasan Nizami who was a direct student of Mawlvi Rashid Gangohi.
In case they don't know which book of Hasan Nizami, then please tell them to contact their scholars sitting in deoband, instead of coming on internet and asking us to name the books. I won't name any one of them.
3. Also tell them to read al ifadat al yawmiya where Mawlvi Ashraf ali thanvi makes fun of 'naqshabndis" saying:" I have seen people doing porostations to the grave of Imam Rabbani sirhindi ( Rd) and some people object at chishti's only".
4. All this is of no value for them , because their highest leader ,Ismaeel Dehlawi wrote:" All this sufi tariqah like Chishti, Qadri, Naqshbandi and Suharwardi is bid'ah .[ taqwiyatul Iman] and please note, Maulvi Rashid Gangohi said : " This book ( taqwiyatul iman) is the ayn islam ( core of islam). It means as per deobandi sect, the ruling in this book supercedes all other ruling given in any of their other books.
Now , all this was written because they can't understand the simple sentence mentioned by Mawlana Amjad al aazmi (rh).
Can you please give references to those two scholars please. JazakAllah khair
And scans if you can
Hmm, can you write a refutation on your website bro with the quotes of those two sheikhs when you have time?
If deobandis bring"objection" upon that, it only shows their comprehension.
I can not help in that. Isn't author shouting and telling this is not for normal people and only for khwas?
I can bring similar quotes from Shaykh saeed bin abul khayr ( rd) ( b.357 AH) or from Shah Waliullah muhaddith al dehlawi (Rh). But again, I won't give the reference because even these two scholars said , this is for people of higher status. This means they do no want normal people to even thnk about it , that is why go to any sunni mufti and he will say it is not allowed.
And I can explain those special people by saying they are those people who indulge in a special dhikr called dhikr e haddadi ( similar to hadara) where they some times go around the blessed grave of awliya in some uncontrolled state.
Just because some deobandis lack comprehension does not mean we should start encouraging them.
Ok let me post the accusation and scan
I don't visit forums whose sole purpose is to show disrespect to prophet ( sal allahu alayhi wa sallam).
Why should I join? You had a question and I did my best to answer it.If you have a question , you can put it on this forum and there are so many knowledgable brothers who will anwer it.
There are so many wahabbi forum. We can't join each and every forum and refute them. Better stick to a pure sunni group and don't waste time with those wahabbis.
What is the wisdom in joining those forum? Just wait for mawlid and you will see that forum posting all those anti mawlid wahabi material.
As it is I will be away from internet in coming months.
JazakAllah khair sidi, I posted it.
Note I just PMd you bro.
Btw why don't you just post there and defend?
Here is the reply, but don't forget to ask him which part of the original Urdu word has he translated as "closes his eyes".
A deobandi said:
End of quote from deobandi.
After mentioning a hadith from Sahih Muslim [Kitab al adab] Mawlana Icharwi (rh ) writes:
“From these words of prophet ( sal allahu alayhi wa sallam) it is clear that prophet ( sal allahu alayhi wa sallam) is Hadhir and Nadhir when the couples[ husband and wife] are having physical relationship but it is altogether a different aspect that like Kiraman Katibeen , he [ sal allahu alayhi wa sallam] saves his sight from these type of actions.”
[Miqyas e Hanafiyat, p. 282]
"Yeh alhida amr hai ki aap mithl karaman Katibeen aisay waqiyat say apani nazar ko mahfuz farma lein"
Note: Kiraman Katibeen are the two angles who record everything we say and do. Each person has these angels on their shoulders. [See Al-Quran: Surah Qaf, ayah 17-18, 50:17-18].
Imam Hasan al Basari (Rd) said, these angels avoid ( yajtanboon)when a person goes to answer nature’s call and when husband and wife have physical relationship.[Imam Baghawi, Tafsir Ma’alim al- Tanzil, under Verse 17-18 of Surah Qaf]
The deobandi translation says:
And he adds
Readers can see the original Urdu wordings are:
"Yeh alhida amr hai ki aap mithl karaman Katibeen aisay waqiyat say apani nazar ko mahfuz farma lein"
Nowhere does it says that prophet ( sal allahu alayhi wa sallam) closes his eyes.
There is no word for ‘eyes’ in the original sentence. The Urdu word is “Nazar” which will translate here as ‘sight” and not eye, because one does not need physical eyes to see spiritual things and a blind man can also have sight ( nazar) of many spiritual states. Similarly a man who has physical eyes ( aankh) can be deprived of many spiritual states.
Hence with this translation the deobandi has shown that he lacks comprehension of this topic. Because Hadhir and Nadhir has nothing to do with physical presence or physical seeing with eyes of the body.( of sal allahu alayhi wa sallam).
It is this lack of comprehension mixed with the disrespect for prophet ( sal allahu alayhi wa sallam) which made this deobandi to make that comment.
The deobandi has failed to understand a simple thing that when we, the people of ahlus sunnah wal jamah, use the term “ Hadhir and Nadhir’ for the prophet [ sal allahu alayhi wa sallam] we do not mean his physical [badni] or bodily [bashari] presence everywhere, rather our standing is that he [ sal allahu alayhi wa sallam] is Hadhir from the nooraniyat and haqeeqat on the reality of things [haqaiq e ashiya].
[ Ahle sunnat bashari aur badani lehaz say hazir honay ka qawl nahi karkay, balki wah nuraniyat aur haqeeqat kay lehaz say haqaiq e ashiya per hazir wa nazir honay ka mawqaf rakhtay hain]
From the physical and bodily aspect, to view such actions is different when compared with doing mushahida of everything from the eyes of the batin. This is supported by a hadith in sunan Tirmidhi which says: “Ittaqu firasat al momineen fa innahu yanzuroo bi nurlillah “which means: “Beware of the( spiritual) sight of a true believer, for he sees with the Noor of AllaH.” Those things which shariah has prevented from seeing is related with this physical eye [of the body], when it comes to the Noor of AllaH, then the Noor of AllaH is not bounded or answerable (muqallaf) to any shariah. To issue the fatwa on this is to slaughter one’s own iman.
Imam Sharani (Rh ) also mentions about this type of firasat being gifted to pious men on these types of actions. He mentions this in his book Lataif al-Minan Wal-Akhlaq, Vol.2, p.78 [Scan attached]
The the author clearly states that prophet ( sal allahu alayhi wa sallam) saves his sight( nazar) from these type of actions ( ex, husband and wife having physical relationship), still the deobandi has to find some reason to deny the status of prophet ( sal allahu alayhi wa sallam) and for that he resorted to lying and mistranslation
Once again, Hadhir and Nadhir is not related with physical presence nor does sight ( nazar) is physical seeing with the physical eyes.
Scans can be seen here
Lets see what the deobandis do with the quote from Imam Sharani (Rh) provided in the scan.
Well he did say in another post: