He is Muawiyah, not Amir

Discussion in 'Tarikh' started by AbdalQadir, Oct 15, 2020.

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  1. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    Highly recommended to all to watch this, like @sherkhan said.

    It's a ruthless 3ilmi slap on the face of beghayrat impostors and taqiyyabaz pseudo-syeds, people like tahir, paqs, Irfan shah, et al.
  2. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    Having listened to the full lecture below, I must say that I haven't come across a better, well-researched lecture on manaqib of Sayyiduna Amir Muawiyah (radiAllahu anhu). I would highly recommend every one here to watch this.
  3. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    Another Mufti Fazl Chishti's lecture on Sayyiduna Amir Muawiyah, especially in counter to Sayyid Irfan Shah's latest rants:

    Mufti sahab contends that ikhtilaf against well-established ijma on khilafat/siyasat of Sayyiduna Amir Muawiyah itself constitutes sareeh kufr.
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
  4. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    Mufti Fazl Chishti's latest video on neem-rafizi's labeling several a'immahs as "yazeedi". This video is in direct response to PAQ's allegations.

    Ghulam Ali likes this.
  5. AR Ahmed

    AR Ahmed Veteran

    His blatant bughz for Sahaba is representative of his Rifdh
  6. AR Ahmed

    AR Ahmed Veteran

    This man (Abdul qadir shah) is blatantly Rafidi
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2020
  7. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    @3.54 he says
    bukhari muslim nikal ke dekhen kisi jagah amir muawiyah nahin hai; muawiyah ibn abi sufyan hai.

    take bukhari and muslim. nowhere is it mentioned "amir" muawiyah. he is mentioned only as muawiyah ibn abi sufyan.

    here is a challenge. bukhari muslim nikal ke dekhen; kisi jagah mawla ali nahin hai; ali ibn abi Talib hai. kisi jagah imam husayn nahin hai. husayn ibn abi Talib hai....

    by that token, i request this group to show us in bukhari and muslim where hazrat ali is mentioned as: mawla ali, or hazrat ali or sayyiduna ali, or imam ali?

    so will they now stop using 'mawla' for hazrat ali?
    Umar99, Noori, abu Usman and 2 others like this.
  8. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    if you read the pages 182-184 (arabic) these tafzilis will get heart attacks if they had shame. but since they don't, they won't.

    wa billahi't tawfiq.
  9. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    PAQ is still peddling snake oil.

    according to his logic, mawlana abu shakur salimi also said: "don't call ali mawla. just ali".

    as you would expect with PAQ he either does not know how to read, or has hallucinations when he reads.

    about the taHkim of hazrat ali, he says: abu'l Hasan ash'ari whereas it is abu musa ash'ari. that is a slip of the tongue.

    but abu shakur is saalimi not sullami. and he is not abdu'l shukur either.
    the correct name is: abu shakur, muHammad ibn abd' al-Sayyid, al-kishhi al-saalimi [d. 460 AH]

    after hazrat mu'awiyah raDi'Allahu anhu was accepted as amir by hazrat imam Hasan. why does this 15th century shiyi-influenced speaker hallucinate about others not calling him amir. not just imam Hasan, even imam Husayn did not rise against him and honoured his elder brother's word and decision. so the period of hazrat mu'awiyah was valid khilafah (after the ba'yah of imam hasan; not in the time of mawla ali). no one would have any issue calling him amir.

    let us take this book: al-tamhid.

    urdu translation, p.370:
    tamhid-salimi-urdu, p370.png

    arabic, p183:

    tamhid salimi p183b.png

    eng translation

    it is reported from abu hanifah that he asked his companions: "do you know why the people of the levant (ahl al-shaam) hate us?" they replied: "no". he replied: "because we believe that if we were present in that time, we would aid ali in [his fight] against muawiyah and we would fight mu'awiyah for the sake of ali.

    there was a flutter about this some time ago and i had written on this:


    imam abu hanifah did not say what PAQ says. he is stripping the context.

    - if not using amir for hazrat mu'awiyah in this riwayat is proof for not using it, then (in the riwayat) he didn't use any title for hazrat ali either. so will you stop using mawla for hazrat ali? [it is a very silly argument because in most narrations from the early times of islam, and in arabic books you won't find appellations such as sayyiduna, hazrat, mawlana, mawla etc. ]

    - imam abu hanifah only emphasised that by all rights, we should have supported mawla ali for many reasons. indeed, great saHabah like hazrat zubayr and hazrat TalHa changed their position after initially supporting hazrat muawiyah. so imam abu Hanifah's statement should not be seen as his 'enmity' of hazrat mu'awiyah, which the diseased and the putrid minds of tafzilis

    - also, he is speaking specifically of being in hazrat ali's army.

    this is so basic and perhaps PAQ has gone senile that simple stuff falls of his mind.

    la Hawla wa la quwwata illa billah.
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
  10. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

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