Ibn Sina (Avicenna)

Discussion in 'Siyar an-Nubala' started by AbdalQadir, Dec 1, 2011.

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  1. Sidi Raza, I am not doubting that of the two Imam Ghazali is the upholder of Sunni Islam--I want to go deeper into their dispute and learn for myself how and why they differed and make my own subjective judgement. I think it could have been a pivotal moment in Islamic intellectual history...if you want to use a boxing metaphor--two heavyweight champions slugging it out at their peaks... who would want to miss the Fight of the Millenium? :)
  2. Exactly as I said sidi Nj. Go through both the works and do post your inferences.

    Only one slight thing which surprised me was that how can someone (the likes of Sidi Asif) still be in a dilemma as to whose beliefs are in accordance to the true Aqaaid of Islam? Imam al-Ghazali or Avicenna?

    Never mind. Happy reading.
  3. Exactly as I said sidi Nj, go through both the works and do post your inferences.

    Only one slight thing which surprised me was that how can someone (the likes of Sidi Asif) still be in a dilemma as to whose beliefs are in accordance to the true Aqaaid of Islam? Imam al-Ghazali or Avicenna?

    Never mind. Happy reading.
  4. Last edited: Nov 23, 2011
  5. Mohammad Raza sahib,

    I too respect Imam Ghazali :ra: but i think if one has any questions it is better to read the source material and hear both sides of the argument. don't you think?
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2011
  6. Khasan di Gal Aaman Aggay nain Munasib karni.
  7. Sidi Asif, I completely agree with Unbeknown on this matter. Hazrat Imam al-Ghazali Rahmatullah 'Alayh is a Name that none can doubt upon whether its is concerned with Aqidah, Tareeqat or logic.

    I have even read it somewhere (correct me if I am wrong), that Imam al-Ghazali also pronounced Takfir on Ibn Sina for 3 reasons :-

    1. The world is beginningless and eternal (like Allah)

    2. Allah has a general idea of what is destroyed and created and does not know the details

    3. There is no bodily resurrection.

    There is no doubt that in his area of expertise (medicine, science etc.) he was brilliant. But when it comes to The Fundamentals of Beliefs, he did go astray.

    Sidi Nj, is it not enough for us to believe The Towering Mountain of Knowledge (Hazrat Imam al-Ghazali), rather than delving into volumes of philosophy, to make a re-discovery that Imam Ghazali was indeed correct? The matter is so crystal clear. Ofcource, the views of philosophers, which are not correct according to Islamic Aqaaid ('incoherent' with it) should be rejected and that is what is said by The Great Imam in his Tahafut.

    I say :- "Imam al-Ghazali is correct.

    PS:- Read both the "Incoherence". It will be crystal clear that Ibn Rushd was defeated.
  8. kattarsunni

    kattarsunni Veteran

    Ibn Sina is not rarely mentioned. Throughout mantiq works he is cited.
  9. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    Brother please read the first point of the second quote above.


    Why? Because he deviated from the Sirat-e-Mustaqeem and belonged to the group of philosophers who denied many fundamentals of Islam. See this and this.

    Its like a scientist, claiming to be a muslim, says that science proves XYZ and therefore you have GOT TO reinterpret the Quran or change it because science is completely based on irrefutable proofs, and some people start believing him or having misgivings then another person comes along and PROVES, using science itself, that the former is wrong and people are relieved. . . . that's what I meant by 'defeated'.

    Did you not wonder WHY?

    Ibn Rushd TRIED to refute al-Ghazali but failed. How could he not. . . he was fighting a Wali and the ALMIGHTY says "Whosoever hurts a Wali of mine I have declared war against him"

    See one example in the document attached.

    And see Ibn Rushd: The champion of reason

    Ibn Rushd's advice:

    Imam Ghazali was not satisfied by the intellectual fodder provided by philosophy. He got the ultimate satisfaction in Sufism. Islam and Islam alone, pure unadulterated Islam, can quench all your thirsts whether intellectual or spiritual.

    Philosophy is fascinating but its a trap, it can overwhelm you as it did Avecinna, Averros et al. Imam Ghazali could save himself because he was an Alim and a sufi. Its like entering a blackhole... the light will make you blind. . .

    what we really need today is someone who can use science to turn the tables on the enemies of Islam. . . as Hujjat-ul-Islam did centuries ago. . . If you have the talents why not divert them to this lofty end. . . why waste time defending bygones. . .and to what end ? IMHO today the masses are more fascinated by science . . . . .Philosophy more or less is déclassé.

    Only goes to show who has prevailed. . .who's talents benefited millions of people and himself..... If only Avecinna had been from Ahlussunnah his work in field of medicine would have bought him great admiration of millions of muslims, reknown and above all a sure place in the Hereafter. . .. .

    Wallahu a'lam bissawaab.

    Attached Files:

  10. Taalib-e-Ilm

    Taalib-e-Ilm Well-Known Member

    I accept that AviCenna is a controversial figure but his genius can not be denied, his picture was on a logo for the Royal Pharmaceutical Association of Great Britain. Even the west is indebted to him for his studies in Medicine!
  11. Watts book has been recommended to mw before. I shall
    read it i think.
    Despite the diff of opinion with Avicenna i still find it odd
    that a man of his calibre in our intellectual history rarely gets talked about
    in public. Maybe in Iran he might but i do not know. Seriously i wonder
    if the average city mualvi sahib at the local mosque has even heard of him
  12. defeated? how exactly was he defeated? the most you can claim is that the islamic world as a whole decided not to follow his methodologies in philosophy and theology but rather imam ghazali (but they followed him in his al Qanun and his Shifa').

    and the attacks by imam ghazali on shaykh al rais were rebutted by ibn rushd.
    i am in the process of reading both the tahafut and the reply by ibn rushd...insha Allah.
  13. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    Shaykh al-Rais. . . .

    His brilliance did not profit him much because he went overboard. He was, by Allah's Grace, defeated:


    Last edited: Nov 20, 2011
  14. Last edited: Nov 19, 2011

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