Ijma'a and furū'

Discussion in 'Hanafi Fiqh' started by Hanafi Sunni, Dec 15, 2021.

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  1. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    This is a lecture on evil innovation among sufi orders that a brother posted in another thread:



    Among other things, sh. Asrar mentioned sajdah ta'zeemi to pirs (and he insisted that this actually still happens and is not a thing of the past) - he said that it is among the munkaraat, an action positively prohibited by the shari'ah and sufi orders should fight against it and exert themselves to uproot this evil practice.

    I agree totally.

    But now my question is, the exact same fatwa of Mufti e Azam, that is universally cited to give a free pass to qawwali, saying "Mufti e Azam ne tafseeq nahi ki hai" - "baaz mashaykh ke ikhtilaaf ke pesh-e-nazar" - that very fatwa - infact the very same line - also states the exact same 'uzr for not doing tafseeq of those who indulge in sajdah ta'zeemi!

    By the same token people should also speak out against qawwali and ask sufis to remove it from their midst.

    Why do people selectively pick qawwali and pretend that the other action is not present?

    People speak as if Mufti Azam (raHimahu Allah), in his entire career, said nothing more than those few words about qawwali. The entire force of his and his noble ancestors' unambiguous censure of the practice of sama' by the unqualified masses is shoved under the carpet - and people are given the impression that Mufti-e-Azam was a intact a champion of those who indulged in qawwali!

    I am amazed at how people will pick and choose to prove their point (and by this I mean sunnis).

    Instead of interpreting the fatwa in the light of the clear fataawa of his illustrious father - people bend over backwards and try to dismiss the tens of fatwaa of Alahazrat for a few words in this one fatwa of his son.

    This is the same mechanism by which anything under the sun can be "proven" to be correct.

    Alahazrat has written in very clear terms that those who indulge in it are sinners.

    The correct method would be to interpret the fatwa to confirm to those of Alahazrat.

    And I have seen one such commendable effort by Mufti Haydar Ali Qadri sahib in these two booklets:
    Kashf-e-Ahwaal, Saif-e-Lazawaal

    There are several old posts where mufti azam's fatwa has been referred to as THE final word on the matter.
    He did not do tafseeq - period. Let the dhun dhun continue ...

    Whereas, dhun dhun is far worse than rimjhimrimjhim



    May Allah ta'ala open our hearts to His Truth.

    Allah knows best.
     
  2. TheRidawiWay

    TheRidawiWay New Member

    Thank you for your comments Unbeknown, Jazak Allah Khayr.

    You are correct that we should not be lynching the ordinary Sunni individual and should assume ignorance over malintent. This is correct and sensible; and nor I do not condone such behaviour. I had mentioned previously that my comments are not targeted or personal critiques. Hence why my comments on this forum have been limited to speaking on phenomena, general patterns of behaviour, actions and statements.

    Of course, my comments relate to what the brother (or anybody else whom I engage with) says, but is (a) not about him per se and (b) it is by no means limited to him or the subject-matter under discussion, as I had mentioned already.

    My comments may appear curt but be assured that they are not intended as personal affronts. It allows for things to be said swiftly without strained formalism and the need for many caveats.

    Condescension and irony have been used sparingly. They have been directed at particular attitudes and mindsets, for those who cause dissension within our communities and the Ummah at large, individuals who ought to know better and others within reason. Moderators are able to intervene when justified.

    Also note that I speak only for myself and not for anybody else on this forum, even though they may agree with me - since I may disagree with them. I hope that I do not have to repeatedly restate similar disclaimers on this forum again.

    Unbeknown had asked, “Why should he forsake the opinion of bonafide scholars in favor of ours?” He is right. People have little reason to forsake the opinion of the scholars he follows for mine save for their conviction in the strength of my viewpoint - of which I presented no argument for. I had merely commented on Hanafi Sunni’s lines of reasoning of which I am free to do since he has posted on a public forum that welcomes engagement on good-faith. Incidentally, I may even agree with the stance/position of the individual despite disagreeing with his (or her) reasoning.

    Remember, it was Hanafi Sunni who said that matters such as photography are deemed as furu’ to “ease the lives of those who do it” and regarding mukhtalaf fihi masa’il that it is “the license to do whatever you want in shariah and nobody will say anything to you.”

    I provided pushback due to the derisive insinuation that those who differ with his categorisation of matters into usul and furu’ are lackeys to their ego and whim. Add the waving of ‘The Awliya’ Card’ of which I spoke of in my earlier posts and the claim that those who disagree contravene a mujma’ ‘alayh usuli matter. I may address the remark that following an allegedly ‘easier’ option out of two is de facto the less ‘pious’ one at another time.

    What is implied in Hanafi Sunni’s posts is that everyone ought to respect the scholars and saints that he follows but Hanafi Sunni does not afford the same reciprocation of respect to others. Instead, it is suggested that they are lax, ‘liberal’, issue rulings at their whim’s behest and are not considered from the category of the greatest scholars/saints of the era that constitute ijma’.

    If an individual wants to follow an opinion of certain scholars then that is fine. They have done their religious duty in asking the people of knowledge if they do not know (see Surah al-Nahl, verse 43). This is commendable. However, to then begin to undermine others and their stances with flaccid reasoning will invite counterarguments. This should be unsurprising.

    Hanafi Sunni also proved my very point in his reply to me. In no way shape or form had I questioned the sainthood or scholarship of any of the personalities that were mentioned. Yet still, my brother felt the need to ask, “Are you doubting their wilayah?” which is exactly the emotional guilt-tripping that I had outlined in my post. It is as if my posts went amiss. He then said, “Tomorrow, you will question the proof of AlaHazrat being a Mujaddid” which is again dabbling in the all–too-typical ‘slippery-slope’ fallacy and evidence of exactly what I had critiqued.

    To spell the obvious, I respect all scholars, saints and seniors of the Ahl al-Sunnah wa l-Jama’ah. I had mentioned this in my posts. This includes Taj al-Shari’ah Mufti Akhtar Raza Khan, may Allah shower His mercy upon him. My comments are not to be understood as derisory or offensive in any way shape or form.

    Ameen to your Du’as, Hanafi Sunni. My posts should not be seen as personal attacks on you or the scholars you follow. I respect them too. Carry on using SunniPort as a platform to learn. Be mindful of speaking so assertively on topics that are best reserved for others. May Allah bless you.
     
  3. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    just for the benefit of others, in addition to what the other brothers have said to you, i sincerely hope you are a sincere but confused brother suffering from reading comprehension and reasoning issues, and not some fitnah monger crying crocodile tears

    just about everyone on this forum is an urdu/punjabi speaker respecting many many urdu/punjabi speaking ulama

    you claimed ijma3 for something, and for that we need a unanimous vote from all Sunnis worldwide be they urdu or punjabi speakers or dutch or chinese or anything else. one subset within the Ahlus Sunnah doesn't represent the unified opinion of the Ahlus Sunnah unless and until it actually IS a unified opinion!

    with the greatest respect to the ulama mentioned, wilayah is not something tangible and measurable like knowledge. it is between Allah and His slave. true, some awliyaa gain prominence and are known to people, but bringing this topic here (in fiqh or furu3) is a red herring.

    there's no point bringing in wilayah in this topic.

    let me bluntly raise the bar for you by mentioning people greater than Huzur Mufti Aazam Hindi rahimahullah - let's take Imams Abu Hanifa and Abdul Qadir Jilani radi Allahu 3anhuma

    do you or i doubt their wilayah? did they not follow two different fiqh's? within Hanafi mazhab, don't two towering ulama disagree?

    Ala Hazrat's being a mujaddid is a knowledge-related issue along with doing ground work to help deen. that all is measurable and seeable.

    i don't see the point of your emotional blackmail on aqeedat other than either genuine confusion and ignorance or for the sake of some face saving.

    @TheRidawiWay 's post whooshed over your head and i'm sure he can clarify things for you if he so wishes.

    you can cite their stances. that's all sar aankhon par.

    the emotionalism part is in claiming that there's ijma3 on the matter when there isn't and/or on insisting to others that that is THE only opinion out there.

    it stops where you or me or all others come to terms with the times we're living in and the issues and lives we're facing in these times. it's called tafaqquh. the people who disagree on the photography and video and mp3 movies etc. issue in 2021 or 1990 are also well aware of Imam Ibn Abidin's fatawa and know when and where and how to peruse them considering their own circumstances and times

    again, quoting reputable scholars is not cultish behavior.

    insisting that their opinion is the ONLY one out there or that there is ijma3, when in reality there isn't - that IS cultish behavior. loud and clear.

    keep beating that line. Imam Mehdi will not be identified in Bahadurabad or Saudagaran or Bhendi Bazar. sorry but i have to say it in this manner for people like you

    follow the scholars he trusts, but keep an open mind that there are Sunnis outside of the urdu/punjabi communities (and indeed differing opinions within them) too and not claim ijma3 when it doesn't exist - and don't make 3aqidah out of furu3!

    even on the qawwali issue, Huzur Mufti Aazam Hind's rahimahullah, fatwa was mentioned on this forum, and it clearly said that it is haram, however, a section of scholars don't deem so (erroneously) and so tafsiq cannot be applied on it (i'm sure you or Abu Hasan too wouldn't be hujjah over Huzur Mufti Aazam Hind)

    not at all.

    but trashing the opinions of many many other reputable scholars of the Ahlus Sunnah (past or present) will earn you the cult card, on this forum or out of it.

    aameen, for all of us.
     
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  4. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    this is not true. and how can you justify this?

    the above allegation implies that we 'allow' certain people and 'censor' some others. which is simply not true. we have not stopped anyone from posting except in rare cases (read the policy which applies to everyone). not a single word of yours is deleted in this thread. you are free to voice your opinion (and if you have not noticed, you are). how exactly are we 'favouring' some scholars and not others?

    what do you mean by "reprimanded"? moderators/admins are also members and they voice THEIR opinion. if it goes against yours, it doesn't mean you are reprimanded. by that logic, you too are "reprimanding" everyone else, aren't you?

    "favoured" - if this is about sh. asrar, let me clear it for you. we did not stop shahid sahib or anyone else to join the forum and refute him. if shahid sahib (or other sunni scholars) were to announce that they would do Q/A on our forum, we would accommodate that.

    indeed, there are some points upon which i do not agree with sh.asrar - and i am deliberately not talking about it now.

    nas'alu Allah al-aafiyah
    wAllahu a'alam.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2021
  5. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    @Hanafi Sunni unfortunately, by your latest post you have already proved your opponent's charge - that you are declaiming from a moral high horse.

    Most of us here follow the ulama, just that we agree to disagree on certain contentious issues.

    If that makes us into a "cult" - well then, it's the strangest cult in the world, to say the least.

    you can carry on with whatever you think is right - just don't redefine shara'i concepts to prove yourself "more right" than others.

    salaam.
     
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  6. Hanafi Sunni

    Hanafi Sunni Active Member

    it was not a critique, but a view/my opinion i presented.

    There many others that i mentioned after that. But according to some brothers they simply urdu/panjabi scholars.


    Are you doubting their wilayah (assuming you dont consider them to be) ? Tomorrow you will question the proof of Alahazrat being a mujaddid.

    Many thanks for adding all these words to my mouth.

    heres where i ended my opinion. therefore upon reading this you jumped to the conclusion (1 to 11).
    so i cant fathom out how you reached so many conclusions on my opinon. Also note brother @Aqdas was the one to move my comment to another thread and i assumed it was done for an educative approach.

    these are not far fetched claims brother. On one hand you people say we respect Huzoor Taj Al-shariahs fatwa which is the fatawa of many many muftis and i quoted 2 great Scholars name Huzoor Mufti e Azam AND Huzoor Ahsanul Ulama. you then say...

    so when somebody adopts stances of certain ulama, according to you this is emotionalism. yes i am not a scholar (still seeking ilm) and therefor it is incumbent upon me to follow advice of the Ulama who are reliable. im assuming this port was created to have ilmi discussions amongst sunnis and learn from them, but it seems you have to be
    but no you have to be scholarly. more so you cant cite certain ulama as references. as then its cult behavior.

    when we do that as Huzoor Taj Al-shariah did, showing there is ijma till the time of imam Aabideen Radi Allahu Anhu. great scholars like you dont want to accept that.
    for your peace heres it.

    Here is the text that the great Imam mentioned from Radd Al-Muhtar of the great Syrian Imam, Al-Allamah Ibn Aabideen (Allah is pleased with him). وصت ميرحت ىلع عامجإلا ملسم حرش يف يوونلا مالك رهاظو , هريغل وأ نهتمي امل هعنص اءوسو: لاقو, ناويحلا ري ىلاعت هللا قلخل ةاهاضم هيف نأل لاح لكب مارح هتعنصف طئاحو اءنإو مهرد وأ طاسب وأ بوث يف ناك اءوسو, .اهريغو ‘and the apparent of the decree of Imam Nawawi in the Sharah of Muslim is that there is an Ijma (consensus) upon the hurmah (forbiddance) of tasweer (pictures) of hayawaan (animates). He said, the tasweer of hayawaan is completely Haraam, whether it is made for contempt or for any other purpose because it is resembling the act of creating and it is completely Haraam whether it is on a fabric, mat, dirham, utensil or wall etc.’
    The great Egyptian Imam, Al-Allamah Ibn Nujaym (Allah is pleased with him) has also recorded this in Al-Bahr Al-Raa'iq, in fact it is from here that Imam Ibn Aabideen recorded the aforementioned text, وصت ميرحتى لع عامجإلا ملسم حرش يف يوونلا مالكر هاظو نم مهريغوا نباحصأ لاق لاق هنأو ناويحلاة روص هري نمو هو ميرحتلاد يدش مارح ناويحلار وصر يوصتاء ملعلا ر وكذملاد يدشلاد يعولاا ذهب هيلعد عوتم هنألر ئابكلا يف يلع هللاى لص - هنع نيحيحصلا يفا م لثم ينعي ثيداحألا لاقي نوروصملاة مايقلا مويا باذع سانلاد شأ« - ملسو ه و أ نهتميا مل هعنصاء وسو لاق مث» متقلخا ما ويحأ مهل لا قلخلة اهاضم هيف نأل لاح لكى لع مارح هتعنصف هريغل هل سلفور انيدو مهردو أ طاسبو أ بوث يف ناكاء وسوى لاعت .هاا هريغو طئاحواء نإو طقو أ عامجإلا تبث نإا هوركما لا مارح نوكي نأ يغبنيف هرتاوتل ليلدلاة يع 12 ‘and the apparent of the decree of Imam Nawawi in the Sharah of Muslim is that there is an Ijma upon the hurmah (forbiddance) of the tasweer of hayawaan, and he said that our Scholars (Shafa'i scholars) and other scholars have said the tasweer of hayawaan is Haraam, furthermore, severely Haraam and it is from the kabaa’ir (major sins) because it has been warned against with this severe warning mentioned in many Hadith, which is similar to what is narrated from his eminence peace and blessings be upon him in the Saheehayn (Bukhari and Muslim), ‘the most severe punishment on the day of Judgement will be for those who make (take) pictures, it will be said to them, bring to life what you have created’. Then he (Imam Nawawi) said (that) the tasweer of hayawaan is completely Haraam, whether it is made for contempt or for any other purpose because it is resembling the act of creating and it is completely Haraam whether it is on a fabric, mat, dirham, utensil or wall etc. Therefore (Imam Ibn Nujaym says), it is appropriate that it is regarded as Haraam (forbidden) and not just Makrooh (disliked) now that Ijma (consensus) has been established or now that the Qat’iyyah of the Daleel (unambiguousness and explicitness of the evidence) has been established due to it being Mutawaatir’

    now you going to question me "do you even understand the arabic here?" i mean where does it stop. you said this "I am sure that blindly claiming a binding ijma’ based on the judgement of a few North-Indian scholars was quite humorous to observers. Personal preferences are being guised as morally binding Shar’i rulings." i have hope you understand my point.

    i clearly understood this. hence, afterwards i did not reply back on the thread though many might be thinking oh he didnt even know what is ijma' and embarrassed himself and left. however, that was not the case i left the matter due to Mawlanas above comment, and further more the realization struck me that quoting reputable scholars on this port is actually CuLTiSh behavior.

    on one hand we have many Ulama praising Huzoor Taj AL-shariah. when hadrat departed this mundane world every Aalim spoke about his greatness and great ilm. Mufti monawar ateeq in fact said "he was the marje' of ulama and he turned to hadrat on matters he did not understand. and that who will he now turn to to help him explain intricate rulings in fatawa ridawiyyah"
    when we follow advice of our ulama and try to adopt teachings of these great pious personality we are then questioned for following "urdu/panjabi" scholars. so you tell me what should an ordinary sunni do?

    why does brother aqdas come on facebook and advice we should follow our ulama and go to our local musjid and learn at the feet of our ulama.
    because i literally did this. All my life the ulama i interacted with mentioned to me tasweer is ijmai' haraam. i even sat with Shah Turab ul Haq alayhir rahma and he advised the same. now apparently this is cultish emotional behavior.

    furthermore what i realized, when sunnis cant handle matters well. they want to approach Barreilly shareef the markaz of Ahlus Sunnah and get a verdict from there, and then vociferously announce the verdict saying "its barreillies fatwa and hence we have to make amal"
    where is the amal gone for this fatwa?
    therefore when sunni public and certain ulama want they will "use" barrielly shareef to support their stance, but vehemently oppose the video fatwa.

    when Mawlana @abu Hasan lashed saqib shami sahab here for qawalli. if i can recall he made a challenge to saqib sahab to write and oppose Alahadrat fatwa. then we all remembered the great Imaam of the Ahlus sunnah. but when we make reference to Al-Áţāyā al-Qadīr fī Ĥukm al-Taşwīr, then its an issue. we get questioned on whether we know what is ijma'.

    this will continue my brother. You have just added alot of words to my mouth. i cant speak for the rest but i can assure you Huzoor Taj Al-shariah taught us to respect Sunni ulama and Hadrats love for students of deen and Ulama is no hidden thing. If some mureeds are abit disrespectful to other scholars on social media, then they do that on their own peril and will have to answer for that.

    unfortunately this is what it has come to

    sad to say but even Huzoor Shaykhul Islams fatwa is not being followed fully to for those who adopt his stance. images are openly being printed in newspapers etc.

    we are advised to always follow ulama and in sha Allah i will continue to do this. One of the reasons why sunnis are in shambles currently is because almost everybody wants now read books and understand it according to what they feel it means. refering to scholars is a thing of the past.

    to conclude, my intentions were to have a fruitful deeni discussion. however Sunniport is a bias platform (in my opinion). certain people and scholars are given green card to do what they want. in fact it can be seen they are favored. this port was for the public to benefit but sadly again you are kind of "reprimanded" for ffg certain matters a certain way.
    on this port following opinions of certain pious ulama renders the "CULT CARD".

    If knowingly or unknowingly i have made a mistake. May Allah forgive me, and grant me the ability to seek beneficent knowledge. aameen. i will not reply back to further comments. i have hope you have understood an ordinary sunnis point of view. May Allah grant me the ability to respect scholars as required by the shariah. aameen
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2021
  7. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    Whatever our individual claims to knowledge or it's lack, we remain "internet nobodies". Why should he forsake the opinion of bonafide scholars in favor of ours - so often riddled with jabs and condecension?

    If you visit the jami'atur-raza website, there are tons of q/a regarding videos and how to treat those who indulge in it. As a layman, you are ill-equipped for putting those answers in context, understanding the varying levels of ikhtilaaf and agreements etc.

    For example, Mufti Zahid sahib deems videos haram, but apparently on good terms with mawlana shahid (I dopn't know for sure, just going by shahid sahib's own words) and Mufti Asalm bandyalvi et al. who consider video jaiz. How is the layman to make sense of this?

    If you turn to Sunniport for advice/answers - I guess you are within your rights to expect a decent dialogue rather than bashing for your "narrow-mindedness".

    You see, as far as it concerns the average Sunni, the matter is, at its root, epistemic rather than realpolitik.

    wa's salaam
     
  8. YaMustafa

    YaMustafa Well-Known Member

    Few points to be bear in mind:

    1. Ulama agree Tasweer is Haram

    2. Ulama disagree on the definition of Tasweer

    3. Those Ulama who permit digital photography (or video) do NOT consider this Tasweer (Position of Madni Miya)

    4. Some Ulama who also permit digital photography (or video) do so on the basis that their is a dire need (They consider it Tasweer though)

    5. The actions of those who forbid digital photography / videos does not make it permissible. Examples (Passport photo for nafl hajj or Umrah, allowing photo taken, allowing video taken etc.)


    Point 2 is important and (I hope) avoids Takfir and Tafsiq of those who permit it.
     
  9. Taftazani

    Taftazani New Member

    Is the prohibition of instruments at the same level as the prohibition of pork?

    Mufti e Azam Hind Imam Mustafa Rida Khan did not do tafsiq of those who permitted instruments. It is on page 456 of his fatawa.
     
  10. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    keep pulling at the thread and you will unwind the entire ball upto the core issue - the principles of taqleed.

    You should always start at the beginning and continue till you reach the end, then stop.
     
    Abdullah Ahmed likes this.
  11. Alf

    Alf Active Member

    Others have already asked, and I repeat: where is your evidence of ijma on this matter?


    Ok, but that is still not proof of ijma.
     
  12. Hanafi Sunni

    Hanafi Sunni Active Member

    Juwayni

    Kindly read Alahazrats Risalah on Photography as well.

    So can we agree, printed photographs are haraam.

    The issue comes to digital images and videos. Is a video an image (living being) or is it rays or reflection(Aks) as promoted by Sayyidi Madani Miyan sahab?

    I think this is where the issue is. And i really also want Mawlana @abu Hasan to kindly give his view on this as well. Will make life easier.
     
  13. Juwayni

    Juwayni Veteran

    FR vol 19 new ed. pgs. 594-5
     

    Attached Files:

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  14. Juwayni

    Juwayni Veteran

    My post is not a criticism of Tajush Shariah. It is addressing the claim of ijma based on what a dozen scholars in India have said.

    Someone who goes against ijma is a kafir or deviant. If photo/video is haram by ijma then those who reject this are either kafir or deviant.

    Therefore, these ulama who permit videography such as the ulama of Syria (this is khabr aam) would be classed deviants by those claiming ijma because they contravened an ijma which took place in the subcontinent.

    (Also: unable to edit the typos on post below due to server errors.)
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2021
  15. Juwayni

    Juwayni Veteran

    Lets make this crystal clear:

    Group/scholar xyz in the subcontinent gets portrayed as being 'off the maslak' for doing video. Some go to the extent so as to say its ijmayi haram, implying anyone who disagrees is a lesser Sunni who broke from ijma to justify a haram.

    The ones making these claims respect Tajush Shariah and his associates.

    Same associates of TS reiterate massive praise for Syrian Ulama.

    Syrian Ulama examined thus way more likely than not consider video jaiz based on how *much* they allow thenselved to be recorded and theur mahafil and durus filmed.

    Syrian Ulama don't get de-maslaked.
     
  16. Adham12

    Adham12 Active Member

    Just so I’m understanding your examples and reasoning about Huzoor Azhari Miyan’s Travel to meet various Ullamas… you’re saying why didn’t Huzoor Azhari Miyan inform the various scholars regarding the Ijma on video/pics being Haram? Or why did Huzoor Azhari Miyan meet with these individuals if they come on video? I’m not scholar and not even student of knowledge. I‘m trying to understand your point and I believe I missed it (please correct me if I’m wrong).

    Again before you jump to conclusions, I’m not here to debate on difference of opinion on photo/video etc. I believe both sides should be respected and whichever opinion you follow. As Mawlana Abu Hasan pointed out someone can disagree with your Shaykh and it doesn’t mean disrespect.
     
  17. Shadman

    Shadman Active Member

    Can you kindly source this for reference sake.
     
  18. Juwayni

    Juwayni Veteran

    Regarding what?

    Again, presuming the default opinion worldwide for an "ijma" is that video = taswīr.

    Yes, my Husn al-Dhann for these Ulama who appeared on videos and doing recorded durūs numerous times is that they probably consider video from the nawazil issues and is not ijmayi.

    I don't think they would permit something they thought was an ijmayi haram on such a mass scale and not forbid evil. A Shaykh being recorded on someone's phone without permission is different to being recorded in a controlled environment where they could easily forbid evil.

    And we haven't gotten to the Egyptian Ulama of Azhar who early on had the theory that video pertained to حبس rather than تصور.

    Respecting differences of opinion means not claiming yours and only your Ulama have realized an Ijma in the 15th century and everyone else broke from ijma and committed haram.

    You claim to be a follower of ala Hazrat but what does ala hazrat say regarding ijma? “SubhanAllah! A legal ijma which means ‘consensus of the mujtahids’ then the scholars have said in no uncertain terms that it is impossible to have knowledge of ijma due to the scholars being scattered in the world then after the 2nd islamic century.

    Imam Ahmed ibn Hambal said, ‘whoever claims ijma (after the 2nd century) is a liar.’”
     
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  19. Adham12

    Adham12 Active Member

  20. Adham12

    Adham12 Active Member

    So why couldn’t the same benefit of doubt be given to Huzoor Azhari Miyan Alaihir Rahmah? My point is where do we draw the line? Do we just observe all scholars actions ignore their fatwas (which is supported by Sharaii evidence)?
     

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