Imam Ahmad's ta'wil of "coming"

Discussion in 'Aqidah/Kalam' started by faqir, Oct 8, 2006.

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  1. faqir

    faqir Veteran

    Ibn al-Jawzi al-Hanbali says:

    Finally, there is the verse: "What can they expect but that Allah will come to them in the shadow of the clouds (fi zulal)." [The expression "in the shadow"] is to be taken in the sense of "with the shadow" (bi zulal); hence, the verse is to be construed as meaning that Allah will bring them "[the protection of] the shadow." [Allah's "coming"] in the verse "Your Lord will come" is to be interpreted in a similar fashion. The Qadi Abu Ya'la reported Ahmad b. Hanbal as having said that the verse "Allah will come to them" means that [he will come to them] through His power (qudra) and His command (amr), and in support of this interpretation he cited the verse "The command of your Lord (amru rabbika) will come." The expression "Your Lord will come," which is also found in the Torah, [was explained by Ahmad as meaning that] it is His power (qudra) only [that will come]. However, Ibn Hamid stated: "This interpretation is in error, for Allah Himself (bi dhatihi) will descend only through movement that entails change of location (intiqal)."

    This statement concerning the divine essence takes sense experience as its point of reference as though it were a question of material bodies (ajsam). Commenting on the verse: "[When they ask you concerning the spirit (ar-ruh)] say: 'The spirit [is a matter that] pertains to my Lord,'" Ibn Aqil said: "[If Allah implored] His creatures to refrain from asking questions about created things, how much better is it to refrain from [asking questions about] the Creator and His attributes!"
     
  2. faqir

    faqir Veteran

    as-salamu 'alaikum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuhu,

    Shaikh Nuh mentioned:


    The hadith master (hafiz) Ibn Kathir reports that Imam al-Bayhaqi related from al-Hakim from Abu ‘Amr ibn al-Sammak, from Hanbal, the son of the brother of Ahmad ibn Hanbal’s father, that

    Ahmad ibn Hanbal figuratively interpreted the word of Allah Most High,

    "And your Lord shall come . . ." (Qur'an 89:22),

    as meaning "His recompense (thawab) shall come."

    Al-Bayhaqi said, "This chain of narrators has absolutely nothing wrong in it" (al-Bidaya wa al-nihaya,10.342).

    In other words, Ahmad ibn Hanbal, like the Companions (Sahaba) and other early Muslims mentioned above, sometimes also gave figurative interpretations (ta’wil) to scriptural expressions that might otherwise have been misinterpreted anthropomorphically. This was also the way of Abul Hasan al-Ash‘ari, founder of the Ash‘ari school of Islamic belief, who had two views about the mutashabihat, the first being tafwid, or ‘consigning the knowledge of what is meant to Allah,’ and the second being ta’wil or ‘figurative interpretation’ when needed to avoid the suggestion of the anthropomorphism that is explicitly rejected by the Qur'an.


    [end quote]



    In response to this, I have seen two main criticisms from the Salafi brothers.



    1) Hanbal ibn Ishaq


    so, who is Hanbal ibn Ishaq?

    He is:

    هو حنبل بن إسحاق بن حنبل بن هلال بن أسد أبو علي الشيباني وهو ابن عم أحمد بن حنبل

    the cousin of Imam Ahmad.

    Al Khatib Baghdadi said about him in his Tarikh:

    ثقة ثبت

    - Extremely trustworthy


    So, as far as al-Khatib is concerned nobody has weakened him!

    As for the alleged disparagement of Hanbal ibn Ishaq by al-Khallal, for a start can we at least have the ISNAD back to al-Khallal for any disparagement that is allegedly ascribed to him? Otherwise, there is no argument whatsoever.


    Furthermore, in response to the following quote from the salafis:


    Shaikh GF Haddad remarked:

    This is among the typical high-handed statements of Ibn al-Qayyim and his teacher.

    Ibn Abi Ya`la in Tabaqat al-Hanabila narrated that al-Khallal - the principal compiler of the early Hanbali Madhhab - said of Hanbal that his narrations from Ahmad were so good that "I might compare them to those of al- Athram in excellence, thoroughness, and perfection"!

    It is no use to attempt ta`til of his reliability.

    More importantly, note that the positions of Imam Ahmad in `Aqida are one thing and those held by later Hanbalis are another! Even in his own lifetime, Imam Ahmad had a problem with some of his students in their attributing to him things he never said.


    [end of quote from Sh. GF Haddad]



    So, we are yet to see any proof that the case is not as the Hafidh al-Bayhaqi said:

    "This chain of narrators has absolutely nothing wrong in it"




    2. Abu Amr ibn Samak


    To be honest, on this occasion I have no idea what the brother is going on about!

    Abu Amr ibn Samak is Thiqa thabtan!

    Ibn Hajar states in his Lisan:

    [ 911 ] أبو عمرو بن السماك اسمه عثمان بن أحمد الزاهد رحمه الله

    - Abu Amr ibn AsSamaak, his name was Usman ibn Ahmad the ascetic - Allah have mercy on him -

    He then states under "Usman ibn Ahmad"

    عثمان بن أحمد بن السماك أبو عمرو الدقاق صدوق في نفسه

    - Usman ibn Ahmad ibn Samaak, Abu Amr Al Diqaaq, reliable in himself.

    Imam Dhahabi mentions the same in his Mizan Al I'tidal, that Abu Amr is Saduq in himself.

    Both of them further mention (Ibn hajar takes this verbatim from Imam Dhahabi):

    لكن روايته لتلك البلايا عن الطيور كوصية أبي هريرة ، فالآفة من فوق ( 2 ) / ، أما هو فوثقه الدارقطني

    - However about his narration for/regarding these catasrophies (balaya) from/about birds like the (narration about the) dead wish of Abu Hurayra: the weakness of the narration is from (the narrators) above, but as for himself, Al-Daruqtuni has considered him reliable

    Al Khatib said:

    قال الخطيب كان ثقة

    - He was trustworthy

    Ibn Shaheen said:

    الثقة المأمون

    - Trustworthy and safe


    Main Source: Dhahabis Mizan al I'tidal and Ibn Hajars Lisan al Mizan





    Conclusion:


    "This chain of narrators has absolutely nothing wrong in it"

    It is reliably established that Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal figuratively interpreted the word of Allah Most High,

    "And your Lord shall come . . ." (Qur'an 89:22),

    as meaning "His recompense (thawab) shall come."



    And Allah knows best.
     

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