imam ibn fuurak / error of mufti ashraf jalali

Discussion in 'Siyar an-Nubala' started by abu Hasan, Aug 12, 2025.

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  1. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    even wikipedia offers a more generous account:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Furak

    the Arabic wiki also says:

    https://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/ابن_فورك#محنته_مع_الكرامية

    Arabic wiki page citing Tabaqat of Imam Tajuddin Subki

    will let brother @abu Hasan get back to his analyses. sorry, i couldn't hold back from linking this.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2021
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  2. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    look at dhahabi himself introducing the imam:

    will a righteous scholar profess such an odious belief?

    and who are his students?

    al bayhaqi! not a word from him about ibn furak being executed for kufr. al iyadhu billah.

    i am surprised at ashraf jalali sahib who was reading out from the siyar citation and did not notice that bayhaqi and qushayri narrate from him. we will see more about this in subki's comments in sha'Allah. even if one has not seen exonerations of the imam, mere mention of bayhaqi qushayri should make one to look up whether THEY had anything to say.

    and dhahabi himself says:
    al-Hakim narrates from him. since when is it permissible for one to narrate from a heretic who does not believe in finality of prophethood?

    since when did "destruction of souls" become an ash'ari belief?

    --
    the truth is imam dhahabi KNEW the truth. but his animosity of ashayirah got the better of him and he simply kept quiet.

    then we see how abu ali daqqaq who is imam al-qushayri's shaykh respect imam ibn furak. how could anyone attribute such ugly beliefs to him?

    nas'alu Allah al-aafiyah.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2021
  3. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    i saw that video of Jalali saab some weeks/months back and it struck me too, and i felt that anecdote needed a more detailed research unless perhaps if he didn't refer to THE Imam Ibn Furak!
     
  4. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    it is very unfair of dhahabi to cite reports without clarifying them whether they were lies.

    for example he says:
    this is a clear insinuation and may Allah forgive imam dhahabi, his antagonism towards ashairah.

    in both ibn asakir's tabyin and imam subki's tabaqat, the story is narrated by imam ibn furak himself.

    he says: i was arrested and taken to shiraz on account of the strife (in religion). so when we reached the door of the city by dawn, and i was very sad. when it was bright daylight, my eyes fell on the niche of a mosque that was near the door of the city and it was written:

    أ ليس الله بكاف عبده
    is Allah not sufficient for His slave?

    i realised that i would be comforted soon, and thus it happened.

    [and in ibn asakir:] they released me with respect.


    ====
    so just mentioning part of it is a half-truth and misleading.
     
  5. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    dhahabi's notice on imam ibn fuurak.

    ==============

    ibn furak (#125, v17 p214)

    the imam, the righteous scholar, the grandmaster of kalam scholars, abu bakr muhammad ibn al-Hasan ibn furak al-aSbahani. he heard the "musnad" of abu dawud al-Tayalisi from abdullah ibn ja'afar ibn faris and heard ib from ibn khurrazad al-ahwazi.


    among those who report from him are:

    • abu bakr al-bayhaqi
    • abu'l qasim al-qushayri
    • abu bakr ibn khalaf
    and others. he has written many books

    abdu'l ghafir has said in "siyaq al-tarikh": the grave of ustaz (the teacher) abu bakr is in al-hirah [Herat], and people beseech for rain for his sake (near his grave).

    qadi ibn khallikan said: abu bakr al-usuli (the master of the usul sciences), the litterateur, the grammarian, the great preacher. he studied in baghdad for a long time, then went to rayy (today's tehran). the heretics (of his time/place) attacked him - that is the karramites. the people of nisabur sent for him and he went there; they built a school and a house for him and his munificence became manifest and the scholars benefited from him.

    he wrote about one hundred books

    he was called to ghazna, where he debated (heretics); ibn fuurak was extremely harsh and severe in his refuation of ibn karraam. thereafter, he was returning to nisabur (nishapur) and was poisoned on the way.

    he passed away near bust and was taken to nishapur where he was buried. his grave in al-hirah is a place of visiting (mazaar) and prayers in this vicinity are accepted.


    i [dhahabi] say: he was an ash'ari; a preeminent scholar of kalam; he was the student of abu'l Hasan al-bahili who was the student of al-ash'ari.

    abdu'l ghafir has said: abu ali daqqaq once prayed for a group of people in his gathering. he was told: 'wy did you not include ibn fuurak?'. he replied: "how can i pray for him? only yesterday, i beseeched Allah to cure me for his sake".

    i say: "he was arrested and taken to shiraz due to matters of belief (aqayid)"

    abu'l walid al-baji has reported that: Sultan Mahmud asked him about RasulAllah sallALlahu alayhi wa sallam and he said: "He was the Messenger of Allah. but in this day, he is not." [al-iyadhu billah] so the sultan ordered that he be executed by poisoning.

    ibn Hazm said: (ibn furak) would say: "the ruH / soul of RasulAllah SallAllahu alayhi wa is annihilated and has vanished" [al-iyadhu billah]

    i say: Hakim (al-nisaburi) has also narrated hadith from him. and (al-Hakim) passed away one year before him.
     
  6. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    imam dhahabi - in spite of his high rank as a hadith master and historian (whose siyar is a superlative work; and one of my faves) was inimical to ash'aris. and in many cases, he would simply report the rumours without contesting them in case of ash'ari imams; though he would refute them in other cases.

    in summary, mufti ashraf asif jalali in his zeal to fish out all "gustakh aur unki saza" type narrations, did not take time out to verify. it may be just one slip, but it is clear that he is not well acquainted with the method of verification and forensic analysis.

    when khatib reports adverse reports about imam abu hanifah, take it with a spoonful of salt. when dhahabi reports about ashayirah, it is the same.

    and ibn hazm? apart from the fact that he was a literalist madman and probably role-model of ibn taymiyah, he has many "fit to be takfir'd" statements.

    one should not blindly report everything, just because it is found in a book. one should corroborate from other sources, major ulama, contemporaries and others; especially, when prominent imams are accused of grievous faults

    we will first critique dhahabi's notice in his siyar and then move on to imam subki's tabaqat and ibn asakir. in sha'Allah wa bi tawfiqihi.
     
  7. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    someone please update him. but i am bound to refute it. else we will be accused of favouritism.

    imam ibn furak is an ash'ari imam slandered by hashawiyyah, karramiyyah - do not lend an ear to rumours circulated by ibn hazm; nor dhahabi's unfair reporting. we request mufti asif jalali to retract and correct the mistake. وبالله التوفيق

    so here goes.
     
  8. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    someone on twitter tagged me to this video



    mufti ashraf jalali sahib has made a grave mistake here.
     
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