Imam Malik 'alyhi rahma on bid'a-authentic?

The quote is taken from Al-Shatibi's Al-'Itisam pg 64-65 but there is no mention of the chain of narration in the book and between him and the narrator is some 500 years? Can anyone shed any light on this riwayah?

قال ابن الماجشون : سمعت مالكا يقول : " من ابتدع في الإسلام بدعة يراها حسنة ، زعم أن محمدا صلى الله عليه وسلم خان الرسالة ، لأن الله يقول : ( اليوم أكملت لكم دينكم ) ، فما لم يكن يومئذ دينا ، فلا يكون اليوم دينا ​

 

I believe the masshur of the Maliki is that group dhikr is permissible and is actually mustahab and any opinion to the contrary is shadh (abberant), but I wouldn't know for sure. From what I know, that's the opinion of the Maliki ulema. Please see the answer of `Ali Laraki:

In addition, as far as Imam Malik, the reports that some individuals bring are not valid, as Sidi Gibril Haddad states:

 

This would be how I would put it:

الناس الذين يتبعون أهواء نفوسهم و يقتدون بألأشخاص المجهولين، مثل شيخهم وامامهم إبن عبد الوهاب، هم من الفرقة المسمى بالوهابية. تراهم كعارضون ثلاث خصائص: إختلاف مع أهل السنة، وإتباع أهواءهم، وإسخفاف الأكابر أي أكابر السنة. هذا الإستخفاف طريقهم لالهروب من التسليم بأولياء الله، جل في علاه
​

 

Al-Ahl yutabi`yun al-nufus wa yutab`iyun al-ahl `aladhina kulluhum la `arafahu, ya`ani al-shaks mithal Al-Wahhabiya , aladhina yukhalifu Ahl al-Sunnah wa yutabi`yu al-nufus waladhina yahyanun al-Akabir Ahl al-Sunnah wal Jama`ah, ya`ani al-taslimu bi al-Awliya`illah

Is that better, Sidi Suleiman?

 

They are not horrible, Sayyidi! We are all in the same boat! Keep me in your Duas,

Was-Salam

 

Sidi Suleiman, I haven't studied Arabic that much formally. So I apologize for my horrible mistakes.

Wassalam

 

I am a beginner to, having only just learnt the verb conjugations a few weeks ago, but, and correct me if I am wrong, the above does not make sense. You say "The individual as Fulan Bin Fulan". Rather it should be "al-Ashkhas Mithl Fulan Bin Fulan" or something like that.

Bi al-Awliya??? Are you sure. Awliya Allah is a Mudaf Mudaf Ilayh construction, thus the first word should not be definite. Therefore it would be "At-Taslimu Bi Awliya'illah"

Same problem here.

Was-Salam

 

and on the bright side---at least i know Arabic

 

Jazakamullah Sidi Wadood for the nasiHa but you're a bit late. Why do you think I deleted my post?

 

Over there you were calling him "Sidi Hamza Yusuf" and over here you are villifying him. Why this demonizing? name calling?

Does Faize Millat teach 15 year olds like you to run around websites all day mud-slinging others? It is very likely Faize Millat instead advises you to not waste your time over the internet and study instead, and do some practical work on the ground, like helping out with madaris.

Leave this mudslinging to people as KS and his side-kicks on SunniTalk. You do not have to copy them. This is no show of frustration. If you are suffering from frustration, go have a glass of water and say inna lilAllahi wa inna ilaihi raji'oon and forget internet forums.

 

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Interesting thread.

I guess there are various opinions in the Maliki school of thought.

Who are these modern scholars you are refering to?

Just because a group of people refer to one sheikh as the greatest, there is no need to post up such a rant. There are equally as many other people who will claim another sheikh, most probably their teacher, as the greatest. In fact it shows the depth of scholarship we have in our religion even in this modern age.

Offcourse if a sheikh contradicts traditional islamic tennets, they must be pointed out for their own benefit and the benefit of others.

 

With all honesty, I agree with Sidi Wadood.

@Mr. Talibul Ilm: Keep your ranting arrogant blackmail to yourself or the admins will ban you unceremoniously.

 

This is a blackmail these arrogant so-called 'traditional' newbies from the west are playing with immigrant traditional Sunni societies. Sullah Kulli attitudes are from these people. They come to our local traditional Muslim communities and want us to accept what difference of opinion is, because it is coming from someone they call as the greatest scholar alive, which too they want us to accept implicitly.

Honestly, who in Iran/Afghanistan/Uzbekistan knows about Shaykh Murabit al-Haj or what western speakers claims about him? No one.

Its like some western speaker coming to a traditional dars nizami based Sunni madrasa in Patna, Bihar, and in front of the excellent Sunni scholars sitting there, claiming, "Shaykh Hamza Yusuf, in one of his series, said that Shaykh Murabit al-Hajj, the greatest scholar alive today, has BANNED group dhikr, because of ...". Its irrelevant, and if that is the way it is said, it will create an obvious outrage. No one knows who Hamza Yusuf is, and who Shaykh Murabit al-Hajj is except those living in the west listening to these speakers on stage and visiting their websites or payed attention watching them on TV. Habib 'Ali did not know who these people were before being introduced to them by some dudes.

We Sunnis follow the salaf, the Imams of this Deen, our elders, and their works, and who inherit from them and follow them. We have our own Sunni scholars. Our own Sunni intellectualism. If these modern scholars clash with that, we will not be hesitant to point that out. Newbies can keep their blackmails to themselves in the countries they immigrated to.

I know of tonnes of Muslim, good practicing Sunnis, in the west, who have not even heard of zaytuna, a lot of them from my community. But they are well connected with their own scholarship back home.

 

Wadood, watch your tongue.

 

There is a scholar greater than Shaykh Murabit al-Haj. That scholar is in Northern Afghanistan. Hamza Yusuf does not know about him and neither do other members of the western scholars.

 

And then, after the Eid Milad un Nabi Juloos, these Sahara Zawiyas, then hold massive meal sessions, with whole goats and sheep roasted, and rice, and bread, for the people to come and eat. Its not that different from our sweet Sunni brothers and sisters in the sub Continent. Just the dress code, and culture is different, but the Mawlids in their main content are all the same throughout.

It is the shuyukh of the Sufi Zawiyas from Senegal to Sudan, who conduct this.

 

The Malikis are excellent on group dhikr from Senegal to Sudan. I am talking about authentic Sufis, the real sufis, the ashraf, hundreds of families, entire zawiya communities.

Has anyone ever seen how in Algeria (not just the north), but also in the deep deep south (almost to the centre of the Sahara desert, near to the border with Niger and Mali), the Malikis take out massive processions on the 12th of Rabi' ul Awwal, with massive flags, and duffs, chanting in the most exquisite and unique renditions, praises in the love of HabeebAllah salAllaho 'alayhi wa alihi wa sallam, in this most remotest of places.

NO WHERE, I have seen such Mawlid celebration full zawiya driven. These are the Malikis, tijanis, shadhilis, qadiris.

The men do LOUD group dhikr in Qiyam!!!

The women and children follow them at the back, but take full participation.

 

Yes there are furoo'iy differences between madahib.

I don't know if the Malikis ban group zikr, but they are really big on group Quran recitations.

They also validate group nasheeds and mawleds with playing of the duff.

And if you haven't heard them recite the Burdah, you ain't seen nothing. (well at least the North African Malikis)

They are some of the biggest proponents of tawassul too.

That should surely make you happy, eh?

Our differences with the non-Sunnis are not on furoo' but usool.

 

Have you heard of the phrase, 'difference of opinion'?

Shaykh Hamza Yusuf mentioned in his series on the poor mans book of assistance, that when the great shaykh, Murabit Hajj became the chief of his tribe, he BANNED all forms of group dhikr because he followed the original position of the Maliki madhaab.

Shaykh Murabit Hajj is without doubt one of the greatest if not the greatest scholar alive today.