Tbh any intellectual discussion on this matter can only be had if both the parties were amongst the Ahle Sunnat and were alims. This is a case of staunch rafizis and tafzili jahils who are operating secretly under the banner of "sunnism" in order to misguide the sunni awaam when the fact is that the beliefs on this topic have already been made clear by the ulema of the previous generations. Already several ulema of Pakistan have met and presented the correct aqaid on this matter to the public (Not to mention the Indian ahle sunnat ulema too). It is the duty of jahils like Irfan Shah and company to accept the verdicts from the ulema rather than trying to form their own opinion. The truth is that Irfan Shah and Co consider themselves above those who possess knowledge! Just watch the space, I doubt any success in getting rafizis to change their colours!