Medicines with gelatin

Discussion in 'Hanafi Fiqh' started by sunni_porter, Jul 2, 2019.

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  1. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

  2. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    the fatwa is utterly ignorant.
    the mufti has no clue of usul and his extrapolations / qiyas is based on his limited knowledge.

    ---
    the point whether porcine gelatin can be 'used' other than food products is a moot argument and spills over to the differences among madh'habs. in our madh'hab, every part of the pig is haram to consume and to use as it is najis al-ayn.

    but his equating it to vinegar converting to alcohol is based on bad fiqh. the discussion revolving around alcohols (as chemical compounds vs liquor/khamr) and their status vis-a-vis purity is a different matter altogether.

    especially when there is a non-porcine alternative available, the excuse of 'darurah' does not hold good anymore.

    porcine-insulin was used initially and as of the late-80s synthetic insulin similar to human insulin in structure is used and is also deemed higher in purity.

    ---
    Allah ta'ala knows best.


    some useful links:

    http://www.madehow.com/Volume-7/Insulin.html

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/synthetic-insulin

    https://dtc.ucsf.edu/types-of-diabe...-2-insulin-rx/types-of-insulin/human-insulin/

    https://childrenwithdiabetes.com/question/how-is-artificial-insulin-made/

    https://www.nlm.nih.gov/exhibition/...A/recombinant-dna-technology-alternative.html

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1339031/ (PDF attached in this post)


    ==============

    https://www.diabetes.org/blog/history-wonderful-thing-we-call-insulin

    insulin2.png


    ===================
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin


    insulin.png
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Flu nasal spray containing porcine.

    Can learned brothers comment?
     

    Attached Files:

  4. sunni_porter

    sunni_porter Well-Known Member

    Request for Ridawi Press: create a chart/table or infographic or decision tree summarizing what one should do when it comes to alcohol/gelatin/other animal by-products and medicine/food/drinks/cosmetics/personal care items. The public would benefit greatly from such a tool. If not Ridawi Press, someone from our Sunni ulema perhaps.
     
  5. sunni_porter

    sunni_porter Well-Known Member

    Below is a summary* of what a layperson can conclude when he/she goes grocery shopping or to the pharmacist based on my (rudimentary) understanding of the SeekersPath/Fiqhi Seminar links:

    ALCOHOL

    A1. Medicine with any type of alcohol (e.g. like those listed in A2 and A3 below)
    • Conclusion: Permissible
    • Reason: Umoom-e-Balwa; medicinal purposes
    A2. Food/drinks and cosmetics/personal care items with ingredients that are a (drinkable) alcoholic liquid e.g. wine, rum, etc.
    • Conclusion: Impermissible
    • Reason: Impure; non-medicinal purposes; known with certainty that it has impure alcohol; alternatives available
    A3. Food/drinks and cosmetics/personal care items with ingredients that are of one of the different types of alcohol and different % of content (ethanol, menthol, benzyl alcohol, cetyl alcohol, etc.; 1%, 2%, etc.)
    • Conclusion: Permissible
    • Reason: Using analogy based on Fiqhi Seminar decree, the reason would be because it is not known with certainty what type of alcohol is used (synthetic, from plants, from certain fruits, etc.) (?)
    A4. Food/drinks and cosmetics/personal care items with alcohol like that listed in A3 used in the processing/manufacturing of it
    • Conclusion: Permissible
    • Reason: Umoom-e-Balwa according to SeekersPath; whereas using analogy based on Fiqhi Seminar decree, the reason would be because it is not known with certainty what type of alcohol is used (synthetic, from plants, from certain fruits, etc.) (?)
    ANIMAL (PORK; NON-HALAL BEEF, ETC.) BY-PRODUCTS

    B1. Medicine (vaccinations, prescription drugs, OTC drugs, etc.) with ingredients that may be from (non-halal) animals (e.g. gelatin, magnesium stearate, etc.)
    • Conclusion: Permissible
    • Reason: Same as A1 above based on SeekersPath; or same as A3 based on analogy from Fiqhi Seminar (not known with certainty whether it is from animal or plant origin)
    B2. Food/drinks and cosmetics/personal care items with ingredients that may be from (non-halal) animals (e.g. gelatin, magnesium stearate, etc.)
    • Conclusion: Permissible
    • Reason: Same as A3 based on analogy from Fiqhi Seminar (not known with certainty whether it is from animal or plant origin)
    B3. Food/drinks and cosmetics/personal care items with ingredients like that listed in B2 used in the processing/manufacturing of it
    • Conclusion: Permissible
    • Reason: Same as A4 above based on SeekersPath; and based on analogy from Fiqhi Seminar (not known with certainty whether it is from animal or plant origin)

    * Disclaimer: this is for discussion purposes only, not to be actually used
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2019
  6. sunni_porter

    sunni_porter Well-Known Member

  7. sunni_porter

    sunni_porter Well-Known Member

  8. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    that was my impression too upon a cursory glance:

    1. Conditions Affecting the Hydrolysis of Collagen to Gelatin
    Note: The above paper states that collagen can be regenerated from gelatin - but the regeneration is only apparent and that there some differences between native and regenerated collagen. This paper contends the same about another denaturation protein.
    2. Physicochemical properties of collagen, gelatin and collagen hydrolysate

    3. From here:
    Well, the difference between gelatin and collagen is more a function of the arrangement of the protein chains than an actual chemical change.

    4. Denaturation:
    Denaturation is a phenomenon that involves transformation of a well-defined, folded structure of a protein, formed under physiological conditions, to an unfolded state under non-physiological conditions.
    5. Also here:
    Since denaturation reactions are not strong enough to break the peptide bonds, the primary structure (sequence of amino acids) remains the same after a denaturation process ....... The most common observation in the denaturation process is the precipitation or coagulation of the protein.​

    ---

    Another point to consider is - if denaturation is to be considered a sufficiently trans-formative chemical change then what about proteolysis
    - which is, relatively speaking, an even more substantial change in structure as it involves a break-up (lysis) of the peptide bonds?

    This is important because, cheese manufacture involves proteolysis by rennet - and if it is a "change of essence" - then would sow-milk cheese be halal? Because, technically, it's not milk anymore or, to be precise, it's a "result of transformation of milk of judicially impure animal " ...

    And Allah knows best.
     
  9. sunni_porter

    sunni_porter Well-Known Member

  10. sunni_porter

    sunni_porter Well-Known Member

    Unbeknown likes this.
  11. Juwayni

    Juwayni Well-Known Member

    There was a research seminar in Bareilly recently that found it to be not sufficiently transformed. @ridawi might have more details.
     
    Unbeknown likes this.
  12. sunni_porter

    sunni_porter Well-Known Member

  13. sunni_porter

    sunni_porter Well-Known Member

    "The gelatin formed as a result of the transformation of the bones, skin and tendons of a judicially impure animal is pure, and it is judicially permissible to eat it."

    According to the link below, over 100 scholars made this conclusion in a seminar held by the Islamic Organization for Medical Sciences in 1995 in Kuwait:

    http://www.immunize.org/talking-about-vaccines/porcine.pdf
     
  14. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    BBC News - Pork gelatine use in NHS vaccines 'disappointing'
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-45939514

    I suppose we're fortunate there are vegetarians here in the UK, otherwise they probably wouldn't label things 'V' or have vegetarian options at all.

    Same for halal slaughter. If not for Jews, they would outlaw that too.
     

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