Molana Afzal Qadri against Sa'ad Rizvi

Discussion in 'Smalltalk' started by AbdalQadir, Dec 2, 2020.

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  1. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    Also Sufi Mashaikhs, being men of high scruples, very rarely bequeathed their spiritual heirship or reins of the silsilah to their own sons (and even when they did, it rarely continued beyond a generation or two). They would rather have their sons be humble "khadims" than be chief khalifa.

    This concept of son inheriting father's leadership mantle appears to be a very alien (non-Islamic) practice.
  2. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    how many are the lamps that have went out in a similar fashion. Imam Nawawi's is the first name that springs to my mind...

    The Hikmah of Allah subHan wa ta'ala.
  3. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    The Prophet (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) did appoint Hazrat Usamah bin Zayd (RadiAllahu Anhuma), despite his young age, to lead the military expedition against the byzantines. But that was an appointment, an ikhtiyar of the Prophet (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam), the one who foresaw the future events. Of course, there were several other hikmah behind Hazrat Usamah's (RadiAllahu Anhuma) appointment; one being the fact he could avenge the defeat at battle of Mu'tah, in which his father, Zayd bin Harithah (RadiAllahu Anhu), was martyred. Even then, this appointment was for a particular expedition; Hazrat Usamah was not granted overall leadership of the ummah.

    Muhammad bin Qasim led the expedition to Sindh with great success at a tender age of 17. But in these cases and many others, these young leaders had already distinguished themselves with bravery and military nous in previous campaigns.


    To outsiders it may seem strange that the leadership succession in Islamic world (despite its extensive legal codification) was never by default an automatic entitlement/inheritance for the first-born son. Instead the leadership criteria have been defined in terms of qualities and suitable characteristics, even though the lack of automatic succession sometimes led to internecine feud amongst claimant successors. @abu Hasan can shed more light on this aspect.

    Contrast the Islamic emphasis on meritocracy to the primogeniture law followed by the "civilised" west. Only in Islamic history have slaves/mamluks come to throne; not just in India, but also in Egypt, Turkey, and almost wherever Islamic governance extended. Dynasticism/dynastism has never been an Islamic way of successorship.

    An interesting study on the perils of dynasticism.
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2020
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  4. Abdullah Ahmed

    Abdullah Ahmed Well-Known Member

  5. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    it is not just talent, but also experience. ulama have said that one should not take up leadership of any kind until one has crossed forty.

    چهل سال عمر عزیزت گذشت
    مزاج تو از حال طفلی نگشت

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  6. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    Exactly my first reaction.

    My quick take based on few youtube videos (and I am not aware of ground realities in Pakistan).

    Firstly, passing of father's leadership baton to son reeks of dynastism that is the bane of subcontinent organisations (from khanqah to political parties). Look at the Bhuttos, Sharifs. Please let TLP be an organisation with difference.

    Hafiz Sa'ad, I understand, is yet to complete his dars-e-nizami (based on my takeaway from yt videos). He doesn't yet command the status of his father. In subcontinent, ageism is a reality, i.e. older and more learned ulemas (or TLP functionaries) will never be able to countenance a young man leading them. No matter how dynamic hafiz Sa'ad is, he will never be able to command the loyalty and respect due to his lack of age (often age is seen synonymous with experience). Even government will see him as a lightweight and not take his messages/warnings with any seriousness.

    I came across a recent yt video (see below) where a student claims how hafiz Sa'ad has completely re-organised and recharged TLP over last few months, how he has been the driving force behind the scene and how under his leadership TLP will be far more aggressive going forward. May be all of that is true. May be hafiz Sa'ad could turn out to be better leader than his father, but he should step aside from leadership and bide his time for more opportune moment.

    TLP should let a more senior functionary lead for few years, before hafiz Sa'ad can assume leadership if he is the best man to lead. He should be part of executive committee without being the figurehead for the time being.
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
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  7. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    i did not agree with mawlana khadim husain's approach about getting into politics. now, i have my reservations, and mawlana was an erudite scholar himself, so he knew what he was doing. besides, someone watching things from far away and someone being there on ground-zero are not the same.

    the passing of mawlana is an irreparable loss for sunnis and especially pakistani sunnis. inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'un.

    men like mawlana khadim husain are uncommon, and the gift of language/eloquence is rarer still. such minds are the right minds for doing research and writing books. but like a lamp that burns furiously with blinding brightness and is suddenly put out, the late mawlana left us suddenly...anyway...

    aankheN ro ro ke sujaane wale!
    jaane waaley nahin aane wale

    o you! who is crying his eyes out!
    the ones departed, are never to return...

    [lit: he, who has gone, will never come back...]

    nobody will ask me, but if i were asked if i had any advice for sahibzada sa'ad rizvi and his becoming the head of TLP. TLP and its late leader wanted this as a party to further the islamic cause. if not, TLP would be another political party; and the mantle is passed on from father to son...

    let us be frank: sa'ad rizvi is no mawlana khadim husain. at least, not yet. he is only 24 and to expect him to be a replacement is unrealistic. naturally, the question that will be asked is what makes him qualified for being the leader AT THIS POINT except that he carries his father's name?

    if this is just a tactical move to keep the people in the flock and to avoid any fissures in the party, one can understand it. but slowly, say in 6 or 8 months, he should step down from the leadership role and make way for senior and capable people.

    mawlana khadim husain rizvi (MKHR) had a brilliant mind, and as his son, we can hope that the good genes have been passed down. in sha'Allah. assuming he has inherited the talents of his father, he should dedicate himself to studying and learning. he should leave politics and leadership for the time being; for taking up leadership at a young age is detrimental for a young scholar's future and it is an incalculable loss if he abandons his studies.

    when you look at the marHum mawlana's life, he was a teacher and an accomplished scholar and speaker before he moved to a different field - his activism was while he was around fifty.

    hafiz sa'ad should not even think of any position of authority/leadership until he is forty.

    one of my favourite aphorism from the hikam of sayyidi ibn aTayillah al-sakandari:


    bury your existence in the fields of anonymity
    for, the (seed) that is not buried will neither flourish nor grow into a tree that bears fruit.

    alas! how great was the man who said:

    manam o kunj e khumuli ke na ganjad-dar-way
    juz man o chand kitabay o dawat o qalamay

    the forlorn nook, is where i dwell
    are some books, an inkpot and quill

    how much we yearn for it!


    i have always been skeptical of politics and in this time of "qahT al-rijal", intelligent people are needed in sunni 'academia'.

    nas'alu Allah al-aafiyah.
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2020
  8. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    am sorry, but I fail to see the significance - why should ulama from U.K interfere?

    what are TLP's aspirations and who calls the shots there - seeing as the main uniting force and it's most powerful and charismatic face has left the scene [رحمه الله].

    What are the bases for these appointments?

    No sarcasm or criticism intended.

    genuine questions, just for info.

    جزاك الله خيرا
  9. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    Pir Afazal Hussain Qadri hafizahullah came out of jail by signing an agreement with the police that he will go silent, and will not perform any role anymore in TLP, that is what he has been doing after coming out of jail. I haven't seen a video of him saying this yet, there is a post circulating so far, even if there is a video, it has no point that he can dictate on TLP matters, he has been completely silent and inactive after his release.
  10. Sunnisoldier

    Sunnisoldier Active Member

    Molana Afzal has released a video speaking against the appointment of H.Sad Rizvi as Head of TLP and exposing mistakes.

    We should get the ulamaah e kiram in UK to sign and do a joint statement pledging allegiance to the TLP decision.

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