Sarcasm side, someone needs to start refuting the Deobandis again. I'm seeing a lot of normalisation on social media regarding the Deobandis. People don't consider Imam Ahmad Rida Khan a Mujaddid, they think he's a takfiri. People reject hussam al Haramayn, a lot of people praising Deobandi scholars and being seen with them. Someone needs to do something
Taqi Usmani is a hardened devbandi and has absolutely nothing, zilch, to do with Sunnis. Who cares if his grandson graduated? No Sunni does. What's it to us? A devbandi graduate is no benefit to Islam because he calls towards his false beliefs. Taqi and his acolytes need to reject the passages in which their elders insulted RasulAllah ﷺ. First prove your allegiance to the master ﷺ and then we'll see. We condemn anyone who treats these seasoned devbandis as Sunni.
There is a YouTube video where Muneeb Sahib's first cousin states that his father and abu Muneeb were both Deobandi.
https://www.facebook.com/share/v/18zobZmvi7/ Will the successor of Huzur Mufti Azam Hind now condemn Mufti Muneeb?
The default ruling concerning people who are not Sunni is that it is strictly prohibited to associate with them. Anything else would be an exception to the rule and would have to have a valid justification for detracting from the norm. Deobandis are not Sunni. This is by definition. Therefore, it is haram, haram, ashadd haram to associate with them. Hence, if a scholar known as Sunni normalises relations with them, and worse still, their leaders; this would be against the shariah. To speak favourably of deobandis as you would for Sunnis and to pray for them and their tradition is direct opposition to the way of RasulAllah ﷺ. We reject any scholar who does this and he is absolutely and unequivocally not a representative of Ahl al-Sunnah in this issue. We condemn any person known as a responsible Sunni for praising the deobandi tradition. Deobandism is antithetical to true Islam and a branch of wahabism.
"To Insult/humiliate such people (deviant 'scholars') is not kufr, rather it is Fardh to the extent of one's capability " فتاوی رضویہ جلد14 مگر یہ اوپر بتادیا گیا اور واجب اللحاظ ہے کہ عالم دین وہی ہے جو سنی صحیح العقیدہ ہو، بدمذہبوں کے علماء علمائے دین نہیں۔ یوں تو ہندوؤں میں پنڈت اور نصارٰی میں پادری ہوتے ہیں اور ابلیس کتنا بڑا عالم تھا جسے معلم الملکوت کہا جاتاہے قال اللہ تعالٰی اضلہ اللہ علی علم ۳؎ (اللہ تعالٰی نے فرمایا: اللہ نے اسے باوصف علم کے گمراہ کیا۔ ت) (۳؎ القرآن الکریم ۴۵/ ۲۳) ایسوں کی توہین کفرنہیں بلکہ تاحدِ مقدور فرض ہے، حدیث شریف میں ہے نبی صلی اللہ تعالٰی علیہ وسلم فرماتے ہیں: ا ترغبون عن ذکر الفاجر متی یعرفہ الناس اذکروا الفاجر بما فیہ یحذرہ الناس ۴؎۔ کیا تم فاجر کے ذکر سے گبھراتے ہو جب لوگ اسے جانتے ہوں فاجرکے فجور کا ذکر کرو تا کہ لوگ اس سے محفوظ رہیں۔ (ت) (۴؎ سنن الکبرٰی کتاب الشہادات دارصادر بیروت ۱۰/ ۲۱۰) (تاریخ بغداد ترجمہ ۴۵ ۳۷، ۳۷۵۱ دارالکتاب العربی بیروت ۷/ ۲۶۲ و ۲۶۸)
You cannot understand how damaging activities of Pakistani Mullahs are to Sunnism. They are destroying Sunnism. Wallah il-Azeem i ill not live to see it but in another 50 years and Pakistan will be majority Deobandi/Wahhabi country. I already have seen entire villages become Deobandi and our Masajid having Deobandi Khateebs n Sunnis preferring them over Sunni Maulvi Saif uk mulook singers n mathnavi lecturers. All this is happening while Deobandis are skillfully opening madaris. In my back yard in Pakistan Deobandis opened three madaris to teach Tajweed, all kids in those madaris are Sunni back ground. It took me best of an hour to extract from them WE ARE DEOBANDIS and when i told the parents they all said they teach quran and Sunnah better than Sunni Maulvis. Our kid was in that guys madrassa and all he learnt was naats n poems. Deobandis ave quite skillfully out classed Sunnis in every way n r gradually reaping rewards ... Sunnis on other hand are set to implode. We need to move away from guard the Minhaj culture n attack anyone that leaves it or contradicts it. Ignore until it is no longer feasible n misguided guy is actively promoting his misguidance than tackle the issue not the person. Mufti muneeb issue i dont edit mod (Aqdas) or has photo ops with them in all showing, or is saying halle luya jesus the real Allah of mine, jesus. N than comes joins masjid. I still would not give a damn. His actions r not my minhaj n minhaj of Ala hazrat isn't judged by mufti muneebs actions so why would i waste my breath. Only time i would feel i m compelled to say something when someone says ismial dehlvis n others statements r not gustakhiyan. Until than all he does with Deobandis is his own Aakhirah. When he puts iman n islam of others in danger i ill get involved. Instead focus should be to preach the correct without targeting anyone in sane respectful academic manner.
Wa alaykum salam There are other Ahadith ... grading i am not sure about but ... Which state virtues of scholars as well. No denial but these Ahadith are not about Aam Scholar only elite. Scholars/Fuqaha are Waris of prophet of Allah ... But not like the Mullah Ji Takreer business but likes of Ala Hazrat, pir Mehr Ali Shah Golari, Pir Syed Jammat Ali Shah, ... Shaykh Abdul Qadir al-Jilani, Imams etc. ... Also i am not berating them for learning Fiqha i am actually saying they don't read the fundamentals of Deen Quran and Hadith but i understanding why you would make that assumption. You don't need too much knowledge of principles of Tafsir n Sharh n Fiqha to understand Quran and Sunnah. I have not formally studied under a Aalim or non-Aalim any aspect of Deen but i can understand it. Spend 20 years in Madrassa preparing to understand Quran n Sunnah and when you have qualified you stick your head in Fatawa issued by Ulama before you n Fiqha. Why bather spending 20 years in Madrassa when your first go to, last thing to have say on Deen is Fiqha, just go to Fiqha save yourself 20 years. If prophet of Allah was to teach n Allah revealed Fiqha Imam Abu Hanifa or any other imam he would need another 7 life times to reach ... This day i have perfected my Fiqha for you n completed favour ... Everything we need is in Quran and Sunnah we shouldn't just read it for isaal sawab of dead. I am not against Fiqha nor i want people to break away from paved path due to wonky Tehqeeq. I would prefer people to learn Quran and Sunnah and Study Fiqha 50/50. That way you benefit from matters which you haven't read in Fiqha yet but read em in Quran n Sunnah. And i would prefer to study a ruling of Fiqha primarily by investigating it from Quran Sunnah. Not to negate it but to own it, to make it your own, so you have got into mind of Faqih who wrote the ruling. That type of study will benefit Fiqha n your knowledge of Quran and Sunnah. And where issues is above ones intellect follow the Imam as Muqallid. I totally understanding why i may seem to be DUSHMAN of true Islam and Sunnism but trust me this DUSHMAN wants good for Islam and Sunnism, Sunnis. What i am seeing is Sunnism is on self destruct mode. Bombs have been planted, timer is on. Mullahs are adding more bombs and Awaam is fleeing from Mullahs in droves to people who seem bit sane and intelligent non-sectarian n non-refuting type n ones who seem to focus on Quran Sunnah, typically Deobandis n Wahhabis. My situation reminds me of my uncle. He would scold me, berate me for wasting time on playStation, Mega Drive. And i would be like, he just doesn't like me, i don't understand why he does that, when he dies my life will be so easy. I am talking about my teenage days. Than he died and after he died i realized he was the only one who cared enough to lay into me to stop me from wasting my very crucial part of life, so i will make something of myself. Now i am that hated uncle.
Didn't Huzoor Paak ﷺ also say (translated) "1 Faqih is more formidable against shaytaan than a thousand worshippers" and yet here, you're berating the propagation of Fiqh? It's precisely because they're not well versed in Fiqh (to an adequate level of depth and holistic understanding) that the awaam are engaged in ghuluw and the ulema/pirs have their takreeri business. Discussing the Qur'an and Sunnah requires the same principles employed in fiqh (the principles derived from these very same primary sources too).
Salam alaykum You're expecting too much from these Mullahs. There is no good in their words n no good associating with them, or in listening to them. You as non-Aalim are better in knowledge and care for Ummah than 99% of Mullah population Pakistan and India. These guys have zero interest in Deen or betterment of Sunnism. Its all about my Takreer business getting established and how hansomely it will pay. DeobNdis n Wahhabis are writing books upon books against us n opening masajid after masjid, madrassa after madrassa in Sunni areas and taking over villages n cities one by one and these Shayateen are hell bent on each other. Prophet of Allah said when u my companions disagree on interpretation of quran leave the topic alone disengage. Because continous argument over it will leave to unbridgeable gap. Hence he discouraged such discussions even though true meaning of Quranic ayah is more important than the Shayateen in these videos n their agendas n the mufti they r trying to kafir or defend. Prophet of Allah discouraged it because splitting of Ummah is bigger Fitna but the Shayateen are busy ... If they read less of FIQHA ... 90% time goes to Imam Abu Hanifas Fiqha n the principles n for tabburak sake they open few pages of Quran n Tafsir n few pages of Sunnah again Tabbaruk sake ... And more of Quran and Sunnah these Mullahs would know how to handle valid n invalid Ikhtilaf. Allah and his Messenger did not leave us without guidance of Quran n Sunnah on this matter. When they get their head out of Fiqha and Sharh of Sharh of Sharh they will find it ...but now islam is Sharh of Sharh n Sharh so we are stuck on these useless brainless senseless Mullahs. Soon as Mufti Muneeb is Kafired Asli Wal Pedashi ... One who doubts kufr of kafir is kafir ... Than new target will be found ... Baba Ji Khadim Hussain his turn is coming next ... By folks who co sider Bawa Lama Iqwal to be Wahhabi ... all this is start end is ...
Salam alaykum You're expecting too much from these Mullahs. There is no good in their words n no good associating with them, or in listening to them. You as non-Aalim are better in knowledge and care for Ummah than 99% of Mullah population Pakistan and India. These guys have zero interest in Deen or betterment of Sunnism. Its all about my Takreer business getting established and how hansomely it will pay. DeobNdis n Wahhabis are writing books upon books against us n opening masajid after masjid, madrassa after madrassa in Sunni areas and taking over villages n cities one by one and these Shayateen are hell bent on each other. Prophet of Allah said when u my companions disagree on interpretation of quran leave the topic alone disengage. Because continous argument over it will leave to unbridgeable gap. Hence he discouraged such discussions even though true meaning of Quranic ayah is more important than the Shayateen in these videos n their agendas n the mufti they r trying to kafir or defend. Prophet of Allah discouraged it because splitting of Ummah is bigger Fitna but the Shayateen are busy ... If they read less of FIQHA ... 90% time goes to Imam Abu Hanifas Fiqha n the principles n for tabburak sake they open few pages of Quran n Tafsir n few pages of Sunnah again Tabbaruk sake ... And more of Quran and Sunnah these Mullahs would know how to handle valid n invalid Ikhtilaf.
not disagreeing with anything you've said. i think this is the sad state of ulama in our times, both the right ones and wrong ones. having seen both videos in posts # 41 and 42, it couldn't have been too hard for 2 Ridawi scholars (real or perceived) to bring legal precedents and have any academic and educated and sophisticated exchange for or against the purported positions. yes of course, Fatawa Ridawiyyah is an excellent encyclopedia of fiqh, wouldn't be an understatement to call it Alamgiri 2.0 but both these mufti sahibaan could have made a stronger case if they brought some knowledge from real life precedents. what i have in mind by my comment is: yes of course the Prophet 3alaihis salam time is one thing and the actions of sahabah are one thing then we have the times of the aimma, where we know that they suffered persecution for taking a stand - imams Ahmad, Malik, Abu Hanifa rahimahumullah rose to the occasion against bid3ah's real time development against entire populations (wahabis make ibn taymiyya too join that club by saying he went to jail and suffered hardships for the "truth" and "Sunnah" when he was actually an innovator and jailed for falsehood!) then as fiqh developed, as did empires with pluralistic societies, as did various sects get cemented in their misguidance, people dealt with various misguided factions and their leaders in different ways in different circumstances in support or opposition to either of their viewpoints to make a stronger case, these two mufti saab's could have mentioned precedents and anecdotes from seerah's of great scholars - for example - how did the Sunni scholars of the Ottoman court deal with the shia scholars (an established sect at the time) and general shia populace of their times, what kind of public relations tactics for the interests of the millah did they employ, how did the scholars from Aurangzeb's court deal on matters of national (milli) interests, and so on. my lament is at the lack of fiqhi (and 3ilmi) sophistication and not bringing in precedents and anecdotes from seerah's of great scholars of the Sunnis, as well as the fiqhi masail they have written - something that should help define sulh kulliyat for practical, real world and real life purposes - not defending or opposing anyone here just thinking loudly here, i don't know the answers. i'm ashamed to say i too am bad with siyar and qasas, but then my excuse is i'm awam. i was once complaining to a shaykh about mark hanson and people like him and how they deal with christians and all and all the awesome justifications and proofs they give, and he just said - people can proffer their "interpretations" on verses, ahadith, masail etc. as they do, but siyar of sahaba and great scholars will show you all the solutions for all these kind of interactions.
No, not quite. If ulama disagree with hobnobbing with heretics, that can't be dismissed as our country is different, we know best. I don't think anyone said sitting with deviants is forbidden absolutely. What they have said is, they don't believe the conditions are met in some cases, such as it being necessary and unavoidable. Mufti sahib went to a devbandi "masjid". Was it necessary? He did condolences for a rafzi. Why? So I think Mufti sahib should be fair with his critics and answer the actual objections rather than conflate.
Muzaffar Shah Sahab sitting together with Mufti Muneebur... this video seems to be only 13 days old, after all these dramas started.
Not into desi molwi politics like one brother mentioned on this forum it is nothing but soap opera and drama baazi Came across this video
he was certainly not an ordinary maulvi/khateeb. as a khateeb, he was one of the most original and charismatic speakers in the subcontinent in the last two decades. he was not only original in his style, but also had new content - unlike most speakers who take two bits of information and fill two hours. no one in recent memory spoke about alahazrat as he did. and the flair with which he spoke about the salaf, the sahabah and their greatness - laced with poetry and anecdotes, he was an amazing khatib. even a short clip inspires you - and stands as a stark exception to iqbal's lament: waayiz e qaum ki woh pukhta khayali na rahi barq tab'yi na rahee, shu'ala maqaali na rahi. the most important contribution of his movement was probably inculcating in the awaam (at least those who looked up to him) a strong feeling of belonging and identity as muslims and sunnis - and being unapologetic about it. he will be remembered for arousing the pride of being muslims. when people chanted: "labbayk ya RasulAllah" - it was with fervour and real emotion. even the stoic and impassive observer could feel the surge of emotion and breast swell with pride when he spoke of our salaf. also, the manner in which he presented alahazrat, and spoke about alahazrat as a true razawi. it goes without saying that he was a charismatic leader - and the proof of that claim is TLP as a major force. and his janazah was another proof. of course, i had reservations about some of his positions and approach - his logic and analogies could be patchy at times. but he was a committed sunni-rizwi scholar. now that he is no more with us, we pray for him. may Allah forgive us and him and elevate his ranks. we pray Allah ta'ala to give us speechmakers who ignite the spark of love and respect of RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam. - who arouse the ummah to be unapologetic muslims. Allah ta'ala knows best.
The word 'imam' is used with different connotations in different contexts. E.g. 1. The imam of the prayer (the one leading the prayer, whether it's one designated by the masjid or any person leading a congregation of 2 or more) 2. The imam of the masjid, usually receiving his title due to his having been appointed to carry out the above 3. The shia concept of imam 4. The imam of the muslims, as in the caliph or similar 5. A mujtahid imam Etc. I'm not sure which usage of the word 'imam' you believe I was using (and therefore objected to) but rather than derail the thread by asking you, I'll clarify- I don't believe him to be any of the above but rather used this as an honorific in the same manner as the word 'shaykh', 'mufti', etc.
