mufti nizamuddin's Fatwa on Obaidullah Azmi

Discussion in 'Hanafi Fiqh' started by Unbeknown, Feb 13, 2016.

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  1. sunnistudent

    sunnistudent Veteran

    Your wish brother

    I need to add posts in this thread. In sha Allah, after Ramadan.
  2. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    i give up.
  3. sunnistudent

    sunnistudent Veteran

    "Fan e mantaq ki zabaan mein" is not " logic" .
  4. IslamIsTheTruth

    IslamIsTheTruth Well-Known Member

    Hmmm. I think we both know what the reality is in this case.
    Maulvi is used by many as a derogatory term.
    When did AQ become part of the ulama fraternity?
    So please don't patronise me.
    Ain't got no time to entertain you after this reply.
  5. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    because you need to understand figures of speech. it [the numbered part] is ascribed towards the said scholar because of his own assertion that it is "logic". see p.11 of his fatwa.
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2015
  6. Abu Hamza

    Abu Hamza Well-Known Member

    There's nothing wrong with the term "maulvi", Ulema use it all the time to refer to sunni scholars.
  7. sunnistudent

    sunnistudent Veteran

    g hazrat, will mention when I raise that issue.

    Meanwhile, for your kind attention, you forget to add janab/ maulvi/ mawlana/ mufti with Mufti Mutiurrehman rizvi sahab's name in your post. You said:

    I didn't know this is called "logic" and how it is ascribed towards the said scholar. In sha Allah later.
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2015
  8. IslamIsTheTruth

    IslamIsTheTruth Well-Known Member

    Ya AbdalQadir that's Allamah Zia ul Mustafa sahab.
    A alim who is more senior in age, 'ilm and taqwa then the likes of Mufti muti'ur Rahman and Mufti nizamuddin.
    Please excersise some adab.
    You managed to address the latter two as mufti's but deemed it fit to address Allamah Saab as maulvi.
    You have done this before to provoke a reaction as you admitted.
    May Allah guide us all.
    Ghulam Ali likes this.
  9. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    please reference statements (as in post number etc.) just to make sure where and what was said by whom. just for my own check, which post of mine are you talking about in the above quote?
  10. sunnistudent

    sunnistudent Veteran

    Not knowing is not a sin or a crime. But acting as a Mufti, when one knows that he is incapable, is a problem.
    Doesn't matter whose fatwa you find 'ridiculous', since you are the only one who has said 'kufr' about speech No 2, which we will discuss once we are finished with this speech no 1. Be patient, in sha Allah, I will participate in this thread as and when I get time.

    Note: I will be replying/ addressing only you in this thread. Jazak Allah khair for your understanding.

    post 362 in this thread has a link to a book on this matter. I have been informed that some one is writing a 'refutation' to this. Just waiting for this.
  11. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    and the mustafti forgot to mention that azmi has misused the microphone umpteen times to abuse senior sunni scholars the latest being at the urs of hafiz-e-millat at ashrafiya when he hinted that all those 100 muftis had become kafir for the fatwa they signed against him.

    great pieces of istifta I am witnessing....
  12. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    i await your reply. i will spare you the trouble of proving that that i do not know much, as i readily acknowledge that. now go ahead and shine the light.
    i find that 'fatwa' ridiculous.
    inquisitive likes this.
  13. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    @AbdalQadir so what's your take on this fatwa? you think his analysis is correct and the examples he gave about itimam-e-hujjat fit azmi's case?

    where is the itimam-e-hujjat? that gujrati periodical was gloating over 'muslim preacher' calling ram Imam-e-Hind. Said nothing about hindus being ashamed of mis-representing ram. hindus or morari didn't appear flummoxed did they?

    and those examples about taHseen of leaders of kuffar - he even mentioned the riwayat from bukhari shareef about those dieties being called 'pious people'- how come he missed Hazrat 'Isa ('alayhissalaam), would have been an even better example, wouldn't it?

    Next thing we know azmi and league will start praising greek gods for they too had 'commendable qualities', being deities is just a minor hiccup and can be ignored safely.

    Infact Muftis of ashrafiya should issue an edict that it's permissible to praise demi gods so long as the qualities being praised are not directly linked to kufriyat. Which false deity is not attributed with some good qualities? that's what makes people revere them. people don't worship Dracula do they? So when alahazrat forbade praising devtas he thought that the organization in question was praising the devtas for their kufr and not just any normal goodness?

    Praising a devta is not kufr mutlaqan? that's what muti'urrahamn sahib is saying.

    I do not know much about mufti mti'urrahaman so can't say which camp he belongs to but his admonishing alamah sahib about not doing his tehqeeq before issuing the fatwa applies to him too (with due respect). Did he ask azmi to prove or present witnesses that the speech took place in the backdrop of the godhra riots in 2003? for apparently it took place in 2013.

    he didn't touch on begum sahiba's eagerness to meet morari or her watching his programs to completion and azmi boasting about it.

    what's happening here - thanks to azmi and his supporters - ram is now being praised on ashrafiya's dias and 'shri ram' is being written all over fatwas (whilst quoting his words).

    and why did mufti sahib not do tehqeeq about this fellow from the opposing camp - what hujjat was he establishing when exhorting muslims to come out of their comfort-zones and read and understand the gita (paraphrased)?

    and ram did 'jihad' to rescue sita? is that what mufti-e-azam taught mufti muti'ur rahman sahib? Why did alahzrat write about ismayil dehlavi:

    woh jisse Wahaabiya ne diya hai laqab shaheed -o-zabeeh ka
    woh shaheed-e-laila-e-Najd tha woh zabeeH -e-taigh-e-khayyaar hai

    why is fighting against the british to have a secular india not jihad?


    the entire import of his speech was brown-nosing to morari bapu and here he is being praised for his 'himmat and dileri'......

    not amused.
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2015
    inquisitive likes this.
  14. inquisitive

    inquisitive Well-Known Member

    It's a shame that the main source of information for AQ is that fitna-blogspot.
  15. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    so according to mutiyu'r raHman, obaidullah khan azmi is comparable to imam azam abu Hanifah. (see p.11)

    actually, mutiyu'r raHman follows tahir jhangvi's sunnat - because he calls obaidullah khan azmi's call to emulate ram's sunnat sharif as a sunnat of sayyiduna ibrahim alayhi's salam (Hasha lillah - wa na'udhu billahi min dhalik).

    i hope these so-called "muftis" have not come to believe that azmiman is ma'aSum (as in iSmat-e-khan-azmi) and every far-fetched ta'wil should be made to exonerate him.

    i just picked a random sample - on p11:

    "is Tarah a'azmi sahib ne apni us taqreer ke zari'ye musalmanoN se nafrat karne, un par zulm o sitam Dhane aur un ka kusht o khoon karne wale hinduoN par fann-e-mantiq ki zaban meiN 'burhan e jadal' jis meiN ye muqaddimah: "ram ne nafrat ka koyi sandesh insaniyat ko nahin diya hai. nafrat ke muqable meiN maHabbat ke baadal barsaye hain" - jo intellectual hinduoN ka musallama hai.

    usey pesh kar ke un par hujjat qayim ki hai.

    jo saHiH ma'ana meiN musalmanoN par zulm o sitam Dhane aur un ka kusht o khoon karne se rokney ke liye un hinduoN ke saamne band bandhne ki baleegh koshish ki hai. jis par aazmi saHib ko unki himmat e mardana aur hikmat e mu'minana par bajaa taur sey daad dee jaani chahiye." (p.11)

    apparently, the dare devil obaid walked into an assembly of blood thirsty hindus with daggers and swords, baying for the blood of muslims, in the middle of a curfew and riots, and the fearless azmi strode in front of them, not caring for his own life and stood there blocking the mob single-handedly and said: "o you people! look at your Ram, who did jihad. why are you against us? even your Ram does jihad against terrorism. " upon this fiery speech establishing the hujjah on the kafirs using their own logic, all the hindus dropped their weapons, and turned back heads hung in shame. upon which the intrepid azmiman told them: "go and follow the sunnah of ram sharif". [go figure.]

    thump-thump. aaayeeeeaaaayaaaa. Hayy ibn tarzan.

    let us ignore the fantastic tale of the azmi-man on the magic carpet for a moment and look at the "logic" of mutiyu'r raHman.

    1. hindus out of hate of muslims, were oppressing them and dealing with cruelty.

    2. [obaid told them:] ram returned hate (nafrat) with love. [nafrat ke muqabley meiN maHabbat...] ram did jihad against terror.

    3. obaid made this point to prevent them from bloodshed. in other words:
    we muslims give you hate and terror, but at least you hindus should follow ram and give us love in return.*

    this is the hujjah that is being trumpeted.

    Allah ta'ala knows best.

    *please note that THIS criticism is based on mutiy al-raHman's understanding and explanation, ta'wil as found on p11 of his 'fatwa'.
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2015
  16. sunnistudent

    sunnistudent Veteran

    Mufti Muti3ur Rehman Ridawi joins the fray. blind following and blank cheques. what is happening to muftis these days?

    Abul Hasan, your remark about "tawatur" and Mirza Mazhare Jane Jana shows how much you know about both. In sha Allah after ramadan. Mean while you can study malfuz sharif and fatwa ridawiyya.
  17. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    didn't i use the phrase "as far as i know"?

    you're welcome to enlighten me further, with evidence of course.
  18. inquisitive

    inquisitive Well-Known Member

    you don't know much about you?
  19. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    Mufti Muti3ur Rehman Ridawi, hafizdhahullah, who as far as i know, neither belongs to Mufti Nizamuddin sahab's camp, nor Maulvi Ziaul Mustafa sahab's camp, nor DI, nor SDI; and has spent 15 years with Huzur Mufti A3zdham hind in mastering the art and science of ifta and is his khalifa and one of the top muftis of india - has given his take on things

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 4, 2015
  20. Arshad ul Qadri

    Arshad ul Qadri New Member

    Another thing mufti Nizamuddin absolutely does not see anything wrong in the statements done as in the istiftaa of uka. According to him in the light of the Shari'at everything was correct and no such thing was said to reprimand Uka.

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