Muslim Think Tank

Discussion in 'General Topics' started by naqshbandijamaati, Nov 19, 2011.

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  1. also there are some walis who can see what is written in the lawh e mahfuz and in their destiny and if they are happy with it they accept it as Allah's Will but if they are not they argue with Allah until he changes it and because awliya are the beloved of Allah, He azza wa jalla does what they desire! This is mentioned by even Ibn Taymiyya in his book on awliya where he mentions that Shaykh Abdul Qadir Jilani :ra: is one of these awliya.
  2. suleimain i think you are mistaken about karaamat. i have heard scholars say that there are two types of karaamat. one of them is the type of karaamat over which the wali has no control and it manifests itself whereas the other type --which i think might be called tassaruf -- someone correct me if i am wrong--is the type which the saint can manifest at will. for example the biography of huzoor sayyidina ghawth al azam :ra: entitled Qawaid al Jawahir is full of such instances where the shaykh was requested to perform a karaamat and he did so. khwaja gharib nawaz and many other famous walis also produced karamaats when they wanted depending on the situation.

    if that is the station of the awliya what then of imam husayn :as: ?! i have heard many sunni scholars in their speeches about karbala and the surrounding events mention that had imam husayn wanted they could have ordered water to spring forth from the desert and it would have done. in fact there is one report where the imam hit his heel into the ground and a fountain sprung forth--to show to the khabis yazidi army that if i wanted to i could have had water. also when hazrat imam zayn al abidin were being taken to damascus as a prisoner they also performed karamat including raising the dead on the way [source: a speech on karbala by mufti ghulam rasool chakswari]

    what use a karamat if you cannot produce it at will?
  3. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    Almost ALL kafir governments support qadianis and the qadianis like the shameless kafir lapdogs that they are, love to lick the feet of any kafir government and work against Islam. I know from my African friends, they are even working in many poor African nations like Senegal, Sierra Leone and other countries, trying to convert both Muslims and christians to qadianism.
  4. sunnistudent

    sunnistudent Veteran

    I have the first hand information that Qadyanis are working hard in South America.They are calling themselves as " Muslims" and working on social weldare schemes. Qadyani literature is also freely distributed in Jammu and Kashmir with support from Indian government.

    All the brothers who have interest on this topic, please start compiling booklets in which ever language you can. Insha Allah we are developing a sunni website refuting qadyanis.
  5. I think there's a misunderstanding with regards to karamaat -- you can't 'use karamaat' whenever you like, rather they are exactly that: "karamaat" i.e. graces from Allah, which do not happen according to human will. It's not something you switch off and switch back on. As for the will of Allah -- everything is according to the will of Allah, including karamaat, so that's not a reason Imam al-Husayn did not 'use his karamaat'.

    Out of interest, where did you get that quote from in your sig?
  6. sidi I am sure if the Ghawth :ra: had wanted to they could have but i think it was the same reason imam e aali maqaam Hussain :as: didn't use his karamaat on the battlefield of karbala either: they knew it was the Will of Allah and so accepted His Will over their wishes or rather His Will was their will.

    otherwise my Ghawth could have raised all of them insh Allah!

    as another great punjabi sufi and wali and poet has said:
    jay Sohna mere dukh vich razi teh sukh nooN chullay paavaaN!

    [if my Beloved is pleased with my sorrow then I'll happily throw my happiness into the flames!]
  7. sunnistudent

    sunnistudent Veteran

    We need to find our strength . If some one has interest in Economics, that brother can educate others about how world economy is affecting and controlling lives of Muslim. Similarly those who keep a track of political development can help the forum members to know about these things. Same goes for historic events and their relation to the present world.
  8. :s1: sidi AQ,

    i actually don't disagree with any at all you wrote on here. despite all that my GHawth is the Greatest Succour and it only takes one nazar! A wayward son is still a son and a sinful good-for-nothing murid is still a murid!


    btw i apologise for a lot of the crass stuff in my last few posts on the other forums; i wrote out of anger that's all and a lot of dirt came out. i dont really subscribe to many of those views about hung black people or white's being devils or smelly south indian hindu weaklings. actually the last one...:D

    forgive me, sidi. btw what are you? i've never worked it out! i mean are you british, indian, pakistani?
  9. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    Man, this think tank thread and that plight of Indian Muslims is really all over the place. Here is my humble rant.

    ALL the problems with the Muslim world can be summed up in two simple lines I read, one on a bumper sticker, and another on a t-shirt. (I did state on this forum, I was a minimalist. Feel free to use that against me NJ - "AbdalQadir takes his life experiences from bumper stickers and t-shirts" ;) It's all in good gentlemanly fun). So here goes:

    Bumper sticker - We don't believe in miracles. We RELY on them!

    T-Shirt - NOTHING's more American than a Palestinian!


    Expanding on the two points above:

    We don't believe in miracles. We RELY on them! :-

    THIS, brothers and sisters, is a MAJOR problem with ALL Muslims, Sunni or deviant, even the wahabis and deobandis who do not believe in karaamaat. The Sunnis are just a tad worse than the wahabis.

    We have this thing that since we are Muslims and khayral ummah, Allah's help will take care of us while we sit on our rear ends. Of course, Allah's help is guaranteed and promised by Him and His Will WILL BE executed, but we are commanded to do the actions required by us. Follow the Shari3ah, do the worldly jobs, tie the camel and then trust Allah, and so on.

    With the "Sunnis" it is particularly worse. Have a good look at any random "Islamic" TV show with desis (Paki or Indian don't matter). Just about everyone is busy asking a wazeefa to sort their miseries out. Maulana Abdul Aleem Siddiqi said in one lecture, you want bountifulness in your rizq, there isn't a greater wazeefa than thankfulness WITH sincerity of the heart. Once again, I'm not downplaying the power of the various dua's, litanies, verses, etc. They have their place. However, when a teenager calls some maulana sahab on TV and asks a wazeefa to pass his board exams and then instead of hitting the books hard, spends 70% of his time doing that, what result would or should he expect from Allah? Allah changes your state only if you work for it. Did the Prophets and awliyaa not work to earn their living, or do their due diligence as humans?!

    We have fools who chase karaamaat from real or false awliyaa NOT ever knowing the sabr-ful life that a REAL waliy has ever gone through.

    How many people know that despite being Ghawth-e-A3zdham, the Ghawth buried 35 children of his own. He had 49 children from 4 different pious wives. 35 of them died in his own blessed lifetime, some at birth, some in childhood, some at the peak of their youth. Anyone can list his any number of karaamaat, some of them authentic, some of them bogus. Here's the million dollar question - Why didn't or couldn't he save his so many children's lives, through karaamah or dua?

    It wouldn't be an exaggeration to say that the Sunnis of the subcontinent have this thing that "We don't need to do anything. This is the land of the Khwaja. He will take care of everything in India, plus don't worry we got Ghawth-e-A3zdham too on our side. Why bother with anything to improve our state when you have the Khwaja and the Ghawth"

    How many people know the number of children of Sayyidi Fareeduddin Ganj-e-Shakar, who died at birth? This was almost a 'routine' occurrence at his household.

    In fact let's leave the awliyaa alone.

    Did every single one of the sahaba experience a mu3jiza of the Prophet (in physical, material matters, they saw his blessed haqeeqah of course) for his any and every need? Didn't his blessed saliva cure the injured? Didn't water gush forth from between his fingers? Couldn't he make a dead tree stump walk and cry? Couldn't he split the moon in two? Didn't he bless one Ansar sahabi that his business prosper, and in Ummuna Aisha's (radi Allahu 3anha) old age, a caravan arrived in Madinah 100 odd camels long, loaded with merchandise, children shouting and running around it and so on. The noise and the commotion was so much, Ummul Mumineen stepped out of her blessed room and enquired what was going on and she was informed such and such Ansari's caravan has arrived and he's become a 'tycoon' and she felt happy for him and said something along the lines of, "Why shouldn't he prosper so much? The Prophet prayed for his business to prosper!" Did the Prophet grant the exact same material favor to lets say Abu Hurairah?

    We think Allah or His Messenger or the awliyaa owe us something. We compete with each other in duniya in the worst of manners. We have hasad with our brothers, and don't want to even work to earn our due share of the duniya. We want as much duniya as the next guy and despite all that we are not willing to work for it.

    And the overnight wali syndrome infused in to the masses by the local maulvis doesn't help either. They breed this whole "We rely on miracle" mindset and mantra into the average Muslims. Just organize a Milad and a Giyarwheen, let me have my share of the murgha and the halwa, and you're all good to go. Have some major job to be taken care of - bribe a few government officials, offer a chadar at the Data Darbar or Ajmer, and that's it.

    Heck, don't worry even about taqwa. You can use mine and flaunt it whenever you want. (Sorry NJ, this is on a serious note and not personal, I am fond of you as a regular poster but it's a good in your face example on this forum) NJ's signature is a living proof of this overnight wali syndrome mindset. The Ghawth said what he said with the hikmah and the maslaha that he had. It doesn't mean that fools like us flaunt that line to piggy back on his taqwa or his affection for us. We got to do our own hard yards, both to attain any station in tasawwuf or to earn anything in duniya. According to one hadith, the Prophet, 3alaihis salam, said that the people of Badr can do what ever they want for they have earned Allah's rida. Yet, see their piety both in the Prophet's own lifetime as well as after he left the physical world! And here, we want to cash in on the one line by the Ghawth till the last cent.

    Murids of deviant "sufis" like tahirul padri or mr. abdul qadir jilani and others, are only that much worse in their wannabe-wali syndrome. Just about everyone is glowing and beaming with the plastic piety they borrowed from their "shuyukh", they're all bloody karamah-workers.

    In any case, Sunnis are only a tad bit better than these kind of people.

    The bottom line is - we have forgotten this article of faith "wal qadri khayrihi wa sharrihi min Allahi Ta3ala."

    We WANT too much. We don't work even for the BARE MINIMUM. We forget that EVEN IF, we give it our best shot, the eventual result is up to Allah.

    Kisi ko mukammal jahaan nahin milta.


    T-Shirt - NOTHING's more American than a Palestinian!

    Brother Abu Hasan pretty much summed up a lot of what I had to say in regards to this line.

    It's a problem with Muslims worldwide, not just Palestinians, although that line is VERY true. Nothing's more wannabe-American than a Palestinian, with the other Arabs only a little behind them, barring some poorer people, but I guess their true test is when they come across money. And in a lot of cases, nothing's more bollywood star-wannabe than a Pakistani, but we all know that. ;)

    Where is our identity and pride?

    We are following the customs of the kuffaar left, right and center.

    The only other thing I'll add in addition to Abu Hasan's post is:

    Our scholars also suffer from this superiority (or inferiority?) complex where they're always looking to 'one-up' on the common man, rather than thinking about his moral and spiritual welfare, which is their duty as scholars.

    The reason wahabi, shia, tafdili and other deviant scholars generate strong followings soon, is because they connect with the masses. Our Sunni scholars, regardless of which ethnicity/nationality, either knowingly or unwillingly, are woefully disconnected from the masses. We live in two parallel universes - one for the scholars and one for the sheeple.


    And yes NJ, I agree with your strategy to deport all hindus from the GCC.
  10. sunnistudent

    sunnistudent Veteran

    It would not be wise to say Indian Muslims do not thank Allah for His blessings.In almost all the dua gatherings , it is said" lakal hamdu wa shukra Ya Allah". Every Muslim might not be very pious. Every one has some weakness and we can't say that unless we over come these weakness , we should not work. Individually we are weaker,but when muslims unite in a jamaah, the weakness of one is taken care by the strength of others. This is the collective duty. Individually we all are responsible for our own actions.

    Can this be compared with those Muslims colonies in India where power and water supply is cut during riots? Can this action of Hindus be compared with the natural catastrophe of drought?

    Just because some wahabbis are killing Muslims in Pakistan does it mean Hindus can also kill Muslims in India? We are talking about Muslims in India. If at all we want to compare then why dont' we compare with the Muslims of India from past 200 years when we were rulers? If that sort of comparison has to be made then the list will be long.How about innocent Muslims being killed in fake encounters and put behind bars for 10 years and later it is found that the terrorists were Hindus and not Muslims. All this is happening in India.

    We cannot do anything for those disasters . But we can certainly raise our voice against injustice done to us.

    I agree with you that not all Muslims are following shariah and that some of them even recite prayers consisting of shirk words But brother, you should recall that Indian is a democratic and secular country [ On paper] , why does it compel students to recite a specific hindu shirk prayer in government schools? Being secular on paper it should not promote any religious prayer! Do we blame muslims not following shariah even for this act? Will you say, Muslims should establish their own school? And for that we need educated Muslims to come forward and take responsibility. And this thread is just an attempt in getting that goal.

    Agreed. But Islamic system of finance does not involve any riba and the world [India included] economy is based on riba. So on individual level we can work among muslims to spread the sharia way of business. But where is the Islamic bank in India? Since we dont have, should we not even work to establish it? Many muslim women might be involved in superstition,but does that give right to Indian Army to rape burqa clad Muslim women in Kashmir? We agree that very pious , religious and practicing Muslim women have been gang raped by Indian Army and Hindu extremist.

    All we need is to compare the syllabus of Indian Madarsah before 1857 and after 1857. Geography, Mathematics, Astronomy all were once a part of Indian Madarsah syllabaus. After 1947 the situation is worsening and soon, Indian Government is planning to pass a " minority education bill" as per which all Madarsah degress ( like aalim , fazil etc) will be UNRECOGNIZED , which means our Ulema can not enter university to get higher degrees! How can we blame Muslims for this act? An act totally in the hands of Hindu politicians?

    I totally agree with you that Muslims are not following shariah. In fact some of them do not even have the knowledge of what all constitutes shirk. But that definitely does not mean those Muslims cannot and should not raise their voice in a democratic and 'secular" India.
  11. of course sidi i agree with everything in your last post.

    i always thought that it would be a good strategic move to deport all hindus from gulf countries and replace them with muslims but i wonder why they dont it or why the pakistanis dont suggest it [if i was pakistani foreign minister i would].
    sadly most muslims or at least many muslims are not pan-islamic like iqbal. paki hearts only bleed for indian muslims for the sake of islam...

    anyway aint gonna happen anytime soon. but you know i think, and you are welcome to laugh at me, i think pakistan was a gift from Allah and the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم for the Muslims of that whole region and I wish we can become a beacon of light and hope for all muslims. i think pakistan is destined for great things insha Allah one day. I think we should have a system which follows Shariah in everything and then give citizenship to any muslim who wants it like the israelis do for the jews. despite our poverty materially our hearts are large and that is proven by the 3-5 million afghans we gave refuge to during soviet era. all is needed is unity and faith in these tough times. let the eagle rise...

    insha Allah :)
  12. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    in my original post, i too had written such things, but removed it. btw, government impartiality was a mistake; i meant to write government partiality (or lack of impartiality). and i realized it just now.

    here is the redacted portion:

    do we not have faith in the Promise of Allah ta'aala? "if you are thankful, *I* shall increase my bounties."

    where is thankfulness?
    look at somalia and the drought. are indians plagued by drought?
    look at internal strife across the world - none more depressing than the internecine killings across the border; do we have such?
    look at natural disasters - earthquakes, landslides, typhoons, tsunamis - generally indians are spared all this.

    all we do is complain about others.

    true, the hindutva brigade is threatening muslims; but muslims are also to blame. if we had maintained our identity and refused to adopt their customs and aspirations, we would be loved by Allah ta'ala and our enemies would look at us with awe.

    we send our girls to english-medium schools and they wear short skirts above the knees; girls who are old enough to do purdah. our children utter non-islamic - outright shirk - prayers in schools. but if you approach parents and advise them to protest, they feel as if we are asking them to commit suicide. they don't even know their fundamental right of freedom of religion; and that they can choose to be exempt from the prayer. at the least, they should teach their children that these are unislamic prayers.

    our traders do not learn the islamic way of selling and buying; our men do not practice truth or tolerance and forgiveness; our women do not abstain from innovative practices and hindu superstitions.

    our rich do not care where their wealth comes from; and they do not spend it in good causes; and where they do, they do it as if they are doing a favor on islam. the poor are not patient and they complain - i have heard myself from people in trouble who are not really destitute, saying things disrespectful and objecting on the Will of Allah ta'ala.

    our scholars usually, have no practical knowledge of the world when they come out of the madrasahs and are at the mercy of the world; those who maintain their dignity and are mindful of their duty and responsibility, spend their lives in poverty. and some are pushed to gain favor of rich folk; while some others sell their religion completely.

    those of us, who bartered our akhirah for dunya [may Allah forgive us] and accumulated this dunya, should at the least give back something to the community. i mean, these islamic madrasahs should have a program where engineers and professors should conduct courses in madrasahs updating them about the current trends and skills.

    make a list of things that a scholar can do when he comes out of a madrasah; and give them career advice. adopt one or two of such scholars and after the madrasah, let them go through vocational training.

    shame on such communities, which spend thousands of rupees decorating masjids in ramadan; but are stingy to give a paltry 2000 rupees extra () as a gift for the Hafiz. shame on our communities that send our brightest kids to medical/engineering school and the handicapped, poor or mischievous and ADD kids to madrasahs.

    we gain strength by holding fast unto islam; and the farther we drift, the weaker we become and vulnerable.
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
    Ghulam Ali likes this.
  13. sunnistudent

    sunnistudent Veteran

    Using "culture".

    Recently an European country banned roasting seek kebab in market, because the smell of the seek kebab was not in their culture! Many countries have banned hijab and construction of minarets in masjid because these things are not as per their culture. By calling these things as "alien to culture" these countries are actually suppressing Muslims and growth of Islam, because culture is not a static thing. It is dynamic and grows with time and inclusion of new things. If these countries can take measures to suppress Islam and Muslims, then why can't Muslim dominated countries take measures to propagate Islam and suppress the rise of Hindus and other non muslims in their country? We all know how hindus are spreading their influence in Gulf countries.

    I meant "against Muslims".
  14. sunnistudent

    sunnistudent Veteran

    Intelligent Muslims on internet should take up the responsibility and mastery of atleast one subject.[ No need to say Religious sciences is the first and foremost]

    Many Muslims still don't know that why did Hitler disliked Jews. Young Muslims should not waste time in listening music and useless chat. Time is the main factor.

    Muslims from different parts of the world should keep a keen track of religious, social and political development in their areas.

    Example: Dubai is not different from India. Many extreme hindu Gujaratis are living in Gulf and sending money back in India which is used by RSS to design plans against India.

    Take any ten years old newspaper from gulf or any other part of the world which had an advertisement for the jobs in Gulf . You will see captions like " Muslims and Christians preferred" OR 'Muslims only".

    But today we don't see those things. There can be many reason for this . First, we no longer have educated and intelligent Muslims for those jobs. Hence the need to have qualified non-muslims for those job.[ This can not be accepted] Second, the government in gulf countries is coming under pressure from different countries to give" equal opportunity" to everyone, irrespective of their religion. This is a long drawn plan to increase the non muslim population in Gulf. Third; the hindu and Jew lobby in Gulf are making every effort to recruit only Hindus on top position .
  15. sunnistudent

    sunnistudent Veteran

    My opinion and suggestions for the Muslims ummah across the globe[ Every one is free to disagree and provide his opinion].

    1. Muslims should perform Salah punctually. We can not declare a war against Allah by not following His orders. Allah is Rehman and Raheem, He always helps us. A strict observance of shariah is the first step.

    2.We should read and study a lot.

    3.Muslims should have specialist in all fields. History, current affairs, politics and they should divide their area of specialization.

    4.Internet should be used to spread the message as we don't have unbiased media until now.

    5. Muslims should develop their own media .

    6. Only those muslims should be made responsible for these posts who fear Allah, do not love word. Because many a time, those muslims who have love for this world , sell their integrity for their benefit ( Example= Officials from Waqf Board in India)
  16. i would love to go to india and stay in a five star hotel or something. the famous one, the Taj Lake Palace Hotel in Udaipur (used as a location in Octopussy) i think.

    maybe india's GDP is a few 100 dollars more than pakistan's but they are both in the same ballpark. yet indians compare themsélves to china etc.!!

    if you ever visit islamabad you will find it amazingly clean. ditto many parts of lahore and karachi. india has too many people...
  17. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    Sorry, I will post about Indian Muslims in the other thread.

    Brothers can give out shots at Jinnah here.
  18. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    actually, there is no comparsion between the economic and social indicators between india and pakistan.

    today's exchange rate against the dollar:
    $1 = 48.08 indian rupees
    $1 = 87.74 pakistani rupees

    only a die-hard pakistani can say such things. while the data suggests similar figures, india is better than pakistan in HDIs.

    i am not saying india is the best place on earth, like some people do - al-iyadhu billah - just that the image of poverty and 'suffering' indians is blown out of proportions. i invite you to come and stay in india for a month to see the difference between myth and reality.

    Allah ta'ala knows best.
  19. chisti-raza

    chisti-raza Veteran

    brother, can you show me proof that the great Awliya of Bareilly Sharif supported Jinnah? Not the design of Pakistan but Jinnah himself?

    What do you make of Pir Mehr Ali Shah refusing his son permission to attend a meeting regarding the political formation of Pakistan btw?
  20. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    white caucasian people doing the same things dark hindus do.

    men can be awfully cruel to one another.

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