narrators in the fabricated hadith irfan shah shouts about

Discussion in 'Usul al-Hadith' started by Aqdas, Feb 18, 2023.

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  1. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Yes, when I read this some days ago, I did suggest the author includes his email in the article so that I may bring this to his attention.
  2. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    mentioning the jarh of narrators is fine, but on page 5, the author of the article says:

    Objection 1: Why did Imam Ahmad Bin Hanbal bring this narration in his book?

    this gives the impression that imam ahmad indeed mentioned the narration.

    my contention is that it is spurious attribution to imam ahmad due to the reasons mentioned below. the jarh of the narrator is only additional evidence.

    wAllahu a'alam.
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  3. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Shaykh Asrar's team released this.

    Attached Files:

  4. Ali_Bash

    Ali_Bash Active Member

    It is as the great Imām, ʿAbdullāh bin Mubārak ؒ said: The chain is a part of dīn, if it were not for the chain anyone would say what they wished
  5. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    I replied:

    'Closet shiah are attempting to authenticate the forgery about RasulAllah ﷺ and Mawla Ali رضي الله عنه being a light 14,000 years before Adam عليه السلام.

    I asked Abu Hasan who said:

    'which moron says this? let them give us isnad of each hadith and we will see. we have already debunked the eminently unreliable and absolute befuddler tenchbatwi. as alahazrat would say: sau bar inki liyaqat sabit kar chuke hain, ek aur baar sahi.

    give us isnad, let us see.'

    For sample, we have one chain examined here. You are welcome to criticise and correct it if there are mistakes. Please let us see the other 7 chains too.'

    I've also asked on their page to present the sanads yesterday and today.
  6. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Closet shiah said:

    'Don't know what Qari Tayyab and all these nasibis are blabbing about. The hadith of Imam Ali's nur is narrated by narrators whom Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, al-Dhahabi, Yahya b. Ma'een amongst others have graded to be either thiqa or saduq. And if for arguments sake this had a da'eef sanad well the narration in Fadhail al-Sahabah is only from Sayyiduna Salman(r) whereas this hadith is also narrated by Imam al-Husayn(a), Jabir(r), Anas(r), Abu Hurayra(r), Abu Sa'id al-Khudri(r) and Abdullah b. Umar(r) as well as Abdullah b. Abbas(r) and Abu Dharr al-Ghifari(r).

    Several narrators down from Sayyiduna Salman(r) is Khawaja Fudayl b. Iyad, the Tabi'i Mujtahid and Sufi master of the Chishti Tariqa who was also the student and disciple of Sayyiduna Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq(a).
    After all تیری نسل پاک میں ہے بچا بچا نور کا، تو ہے عین نور تیرا سب گھرانہ نور کا.'
  7. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    i have moved the hadith narrators examination to a separate thread as it got lost in other posts in that thread.
  8. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    doesn't make sense. when the chain is spurious from the beginning itself, what is the point in suspecting an upstream rawi who might have never said it!

    yes dhahabi has said that he would do tadlis and irsal, but in this particular "hadith", there is no way it can be tadlis.

    remember that tadlis is haram and a lie if they use "an" if they have not met that upstream rawi; however tadlis al-shuyukh is mildly disliked. where is tadlis here if zaadhaan is an already knwon raawi and is also known to have narrated from hazrat salman?

    btw, khalid ibn ma'dan is a thiqah raawi.

    copied from an old post:

    about Khalid ibn Mádān, it is said that he said 40,000 tasbīĥ everyday. Dhahabi adds (in taz’hib) that when Khalid sat down none had the courage to mention worldly affairs out of his awe. His daughter (ábdah) says that when he lied down to sleep, he would remember and mention RasūlAllāh şallAllāhu álayhi wa sallam and his companions immensely and with utmost yearning. He would say: ‘They are my first and my last; my heart pines for them, my longing for their meeting is immense. O Allāh, hasten me and take me towards them. He would say this until he would fall asleep saying this.

    Last edited: Jan 22, 2023
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  9. Ali_Bash

    Ali_Bash Active Member

    Khalid bin Maʿdan is a mudallis is it possible he performed tadlis in this chain, another cringeworthy statement made by AQS was narration has been corroborated (muʿtabiyat) he said Imām Maghazi d.483 wrote in his book (@abu Hasan can you find the book) with his chain..... and this narration has corroborated the other one

    He was remarkby deceptive as the chain he states is exactly the same as the one found in Faḍāʿīl al-Ṣaḥābah.

    May Allāh protect the Ahlus-Sunnah from deceivers such as AQS, Irfan Shāh and their ilk.
  10. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    this is the purported 'hadith' 'written by' imam ahmad according to irfan shah.

    fadayil sahabah, n1130.png

    look at the chain:

    narrated to us
    1) hasan (ibn ali basri)
    d.319 AH (says)-> narrated to us
    2) ahmad ibn miqdam al-ijli
    d.253 AH -> narrated to us
    3) fuDayl ibn iyad
    d.186 AH -> narrated to us
    4) thawr ibn yazid
    d. 153 AH -> narrated to us
    5) khalid ibn ma'adan
    d.103 AH > narrated to us
    6) zaadhan
    d. 82 AH -> from
    7) salman (al-farisi)
    d. 35 AH (also said to have passed away in khilafah of sayyiduna umar)

    tahdhib, #136
    ahmad ibn muhammad ibn yahya ibn sayid al-qattan; abu sayid al-basri. he passed away in 250AH or 257AH.

    ahmad ibn miqdam is a contemporary of imam ahmad and in the biographical notices i have seen in tahdhib, siyar, mizan, tazkiratu'l huffaz etc neither is listed as having narrated from the other. especially those who narrate from imam ahmad and those from whom he narrates. even in tabaqat al-hanabilah.

    while it is chronologically possible, it is highly implausible that imam ahmad would narrate from a student of one of his contemporaries!

    thawr ibn yazid and khalid ibn ma'adan are from hims in syria.

    but did fuDayl narrate from thawr? in fact, abu nuaym in Hilyah has a narration :

    hilyatawliya, v8p139.png
    in which is the chain: fuDayl ibn iyad (says) narrated to us: thawr ibn yazid from khalid ibn ma'dan.

    and abu nuaym says: "i do not know of ANY OTHER narration in which fuDayl narrates from levantine/shami narrators"

    so there is a third question mark on this chain

    thawr narrating from khalid is well-known, but did khalid narrate from zaadhaan?

    khalid is not mentioned in zaadhaan's list of "who narrate from him"
    NOR in zaadhaan in khalid's "whom he narrates from".

    and curiously, except for this ONE heavily discredited chain, i could not find any other narration where khalid narrates from zaadhan. if someone can find it please do add it here.

    as one can see, marks of a shoddy fabrication are all over the chain. as for the matn/text, it is another story.

    wAllahu a'alam.
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  11. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    as mentioned in the preface of fadayil al-sahabah edition, citing ibn taymiyyah's minhaj al-sunnah:


    and then imam ahmad's son made additions; and then his student abu bakr al-qatiyi made some more additions.
    and in the additions of al-qatiyi, a number of hadith are fabrications (mawDu'at) - and a person who does not aware [jahil] of this background will assume that all of these are from the narrations of imam ahmad...[minhaj of ibn taymiyyah, 7/97]

    ibn taymiyyah in minhaj al-sunnah: 7/97

    minhaj v7p97.png

    as i pointed out - these are not imam ahmad's narrations. ibn taymiyyah also says that these are narrators junior to imam ahmad and who narrate from him not vice-versa.

    [note: after my post on the many "hasan basri" present in rijal; i listened to mawlana zulfiqar sayyid sab's short clip where he points out the above comment about 3 types of riwayat in "faDayil"].
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  12. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    i checked various books of tarikh and rijal, but i didn't find any of the major historians/ulama of rijal mention that imam ahmad narrated from this famous liar hasan ibn ali ibn zakariyah al-basriy.

    it is probably not irfan shah's mistake - poor guy would not know about something he was fed by a group of notorious fake-news peddlers such as the infamous tanchbatwi.

    wAllahu a'alam.
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2023
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  13. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    ha ha.
    shows extreme ignorance of ruwwat. there are dozen ruwwat who are named hasan and are from basrah!

    taken from tahdhib al-tahdhib of ibn hajar:

    #1440 hasan ibn bilal al-basriy

    #1446 hasan ibn abi ja'afar ajlan - adawi basri

    #1448 hasan ibn habib ibn nadabah; abu sayid al-basri

    #1452 hasan ibn abi'l hasan yasar al-basri [this is the famous tabiyi and imam of sufis commonly known as imam hasan al-basriy]

    #1453 hasan ibn abi'l hasnaa abu sahl al-baSriy al-qawwas

    #1466 hasan ibn dinar abu sayid al-basriy

    #1467 hasan ibn dhakwan abu salamah al-baSriy

    #1490 hasan ibn ali ibn rashid al-wasiti, migrated to basrah (hence basri)

    #1498 hasan ibn umar ibn shaqiq ibn asmaa al-jarmi, abu ali al-basri

    #1501 hasan ibn amr al-sadusiy al-basri

    #1502 hasan ibn amr ibn sayf al-abdi; also said to be: bahili; aka: hudhali al-basri, abu ali. [bukhari said about him: "liar!"}

    #1512 hasan ibn qaza'ah ibn ubayd al-hashimi abu ali; also said to be: abu muhammad al-khulqani al-basri

    #1521 hasan ibn mudrik ibn bashir al-sadusi, abu ali al-basri al-taHHan

    #1529 hasan ibn yahya ibn hisham al-ruzzi abu ali al-basri

    #1530 hasan ibn yahya al-basri (who settled in khorasan).

    also in lisan al-mizan:

    #2286 hasan ibn al-sakan al-basri
    #2236 hasan ibn ahmad ibn duwayrah al-basriy,

    the culprit in the forged hadith is:

    (lisan) #2332 hasan ibn ali ibn zakariyyah ibn salih, abu sayid, al-adawi, al-baSriy; known by the nickname: "dhiyb" [wolf].

    ibn adi said: hasan ibn ali ibn salih abu sayid al-adawi al-basri used to fabricate hadith; he narrates from khirash and anas nearly 14 hadith. he has narrated from many people and nobody knows who they are (whether they existed); and he (purportedly) narrates from trustworthy narrators (thiqat) things which are false.

    he was born in 210 AH and died in 319 AH.

    ibn hajar mentions the forged hadith with slight variation vide ibn asakir

    now here is the deal:
    imam ahmad was nearly eighty when he passed away in 241AH.
    this hasan basriy would be 31 year old young man at that time.
    does it sound sensible that the imam of the world at that time would narrate a hadith from a well known liar?
    the presence of that 'hadith' in imam ahmad's work is itself spurious on the face of it.
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2023
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  14. Ali_Bash

    Ali_Bash Active Member

    I remember watching parts of the Aqs video and Mufti Zahid Jalali Ṣaḥib also presents a snippet of and he (AQS) made exterme blunders in that video claiming that the Ḥasan Imām Aḥmad heard from is Ḥasan al-Bașrī, and it is known al-Ḥasan al-bașrī passed away in the year 110 (See Tahdhīb al-Kamal 6:126) and Imām Ahamd was born in 164 so how did he hear from him.

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