on ghumaris

Discussion in 'Refutation' started by shahnawazgm, Apr 1, 2018.

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  1. Abu Hamza

    Abu Hamza Hanafi-Maturidi

    a quick browse through ahmad al ghumari's work:

    1. the ashari's are ignoramuses, and imam subki was 'majnun' (pg. 11)

    2. according to him, when the salaf spoke of innovators and mu'atila, they meant the ashari's (pg. 13)

    3. imam zahid al - kawthari is an enemy of the sunnah, the salaf, and the scholars, with the exception of the hanafis and those who concord with them (pg. 40)

    4. takes shots at khatib al - baghdadi, al- hakim, abu nuaym, and especially ibn al - jawzi - according to him, ibn al jawzi was a jahil whose words ought to be discarded because they hold no value whatsoever! (pg. 44/45/46)

    5. he has a major gripe with shah waliullah because of his position on sayyiduna ali (radiy'allahu anh). in 'al tafhimat', shah waliullah is allegedly reported to have said 'ali is not from the khulafa al - rashidin' and he was refuted by ibrahim saqa.. 'because of this, i do not call him waliullah, because he was a wali of shaytan!' (pg. 47)

    6. ahmad al tijani (rahimahullah) according to us, 'is not counted from amongst the muslims, let alone the notion that he was from the awliya, rather he is greater than dajjal...! (pg. 65)

    7. criticises ibn khuazyma's work 'kitab al tawhid' (this might be a valid criticism) pg. 80

    8. ibn hajr al makki demonstrates his ignorance and his hypocrisy in his works 'al sawariq ul - muhriqa' and 'salb ul - jinan' (pg. 81)

    9. absurd statements pertaining to the 'iyman' of firawn! (pg. 96)


    i'm all for ta'wil, but even i'll struggle here.
     
  2. Abu Hamza

    Abu Hamza Hanafi-Maturidi

  3. AR Ahmed

    AR Ahmed Veteran

    To be fair big Ulama such as Shaykh Muhammad ibn Alawi, Shaykh Abdul Hakim Sharaf and Imam Zahid al Kawthari have praised them and/or taken ijaza from them

    But simply praising or taking ijaza does not entail endorsement

    See the attachment of Imam al Kawthari rahimahullah’s introduction to Iqamat al Burhan for example
     

    Attached Files:

  4. AR Ahmed

    AR Ahmed Veteran

  5. AR Ahmed

    AR Ahmed Veteran

    For example in his book جؤنة العطار Ahmad al-Ghumari attributes an incorrect attribution to Sayyidina Imam Sufyan al-Thawri radhiallahu `anhu showing the Tafdhili/Shi`i leanings of the Ghumariyyun.


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  6. AR Ahmed

    AR Ahmed Veteran

    In regards to the Ghumari shuyukh, namely Abdullah ibn Muhammad ibn Siddiq and Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Siddiq, it is well known that they and their students held positions that went against the Ahl al-Sunna wal Jama`ah.

    For example, Ahmad al-Ghumari made claims in his book جؤنة العطار regarding tafdhil and Sayyidina Amir Mu`awiya radhiyAllahu anhu

    Wallahu `alam
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2018
  7. Ibn Hadi

    Ibn Hadi Ya Ghaus e Azam Dastageer

    You have claimed that direct ijtihaad from usul of shafi'i madhhab is not 'problematic' - which is not true.

    You have made a sweeping generalization - which is actually your pet theory (and which, given the people you take your knowledge from, is not surprising).

    Besides, G.F Haddad's article is pretty informative and contains references which - given his status as a scholar - is for you to prove false, inadequate or lies or whatever. I haven't cross-checked every single one of them, but I know from reliable scholars that all ghumaris except one held problematic views.

    wa's salaam[/QUOTE]
    So if a qualified mufti from one of the 4 schools wants to give fatwa on a new issue, does he abandon the usul of his madhab or stick to it?

    That is what I meant, I don't see how that would be problematic.
    Hafidh Ahmad and Hafidh Abdullah learned both the Maliki and Shafi'i schools. And chose to adapt the Shafi'i madhab when giving fatwa.

    And considering how blatantly others on here attack Shaykh Gibril Haddad for his flip flopping on Deobandis, I am surprised you accept what he says without double checking it.

    I've heard enough ulama from the Arab world and Malaysia and Indonesia praise them.

    I don't care about the lies of someone who considers Nazim Haqqani to be his murshid.
     
  8. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    as yet I haven't uttered a word about the ghumaris - when I do, I will provide my proofs.

    Did anyone here ask you to come up with false allegations or insult them?

    You have disagreed with G.F Haddad's article and called everything other than tafzil "not true" and "lies" - and provided reasons - none of which are sound or rigorous - and I have merely pointed that out.

    You have claimed that direct ijtihaad from usul of shafi'i madhhab is not 'problematic' - which is not true.

    You have made a sweeping generalization - which is actually your pet theory (and which, given the people you take your knowledge from, is not surprising).

    Besides, G.F Haddad's article is pretty informative and contains references which - given his status as a scholar - is for you to prove false, inadequate or lies or whatever. I haven't cross-checked every single one of them, but I know from reliable scholars that all ghumaris except one held problematic views.

    wa's salaam
     
  9. Ibn Hadi

    Ibn Hadi Ya Ghaus e Azam Dastageer

    If you know any better then please provide proof from their own books that they claimed to be mujtahid mutlaq, rejected taqlid, etc.

    Sayyid Muhammad Alawi Al Maliki and others had great respect for them. So I am not going to rush to insult them or make up false allegations.
     
  10. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    so?

    sweeping statements don't prove anything.

    as if that wasn't problematic enough.

    Then you don't have the right to say the following with the certainty that you have.

     
    Ghulam Ali likes this.
  11. Ibn Hadi

    Ibn Hadi Ya Ghaus e Azam Dastageer

    I am not a shaykh nor have I studied under anyone of the Ghumaris.
    Abul Hassan Ahmed is a Deobandi.

    The student I have directly talked to that has any online presence is someone named Muhammad Umar Al Qadri. He is associated with Pir Abdul Qadir Shah (they all have tafzili aqeedah)
    The rest are not well known or online.

    And I have seen the Ghumari brothers praised by many great ulama and they have many works refuting Ibn Taymiyyah, Albani, etc.
    Plus they are Syed, so I have a good opinion of them.

    I don't know why Shaykh Gibril wrote some of the things he said.
    But nowhere in any of their books did they claim to be Mujtahid Mutlaq or stuff like that.

    Hafidh Ahmad has books praising the Shafi'i school. Ulama are allowed to have differences of opinion in furu. They are Huffadh of hadith and their strength in this field is well known.

    The only problematic isssue with them is Tafzil. That is as much as I have found out.

    Allah knows best
     
  12. interesting, could you please name some of their students you talked to and also your name so this could be confirmed.

    Doing a google search, your claims turns out to be same as made by a notorious deobandit called Karim Abdullah since he tried to defend the ghumaris as he had ijazas going through their students.

    Are you associated with Abul Hasan Hussain Ahmed ?

    Why do you think GF haddad lied on Ghumaris ? because he didn't have ijazas going through them ?
     
  13. Ibn Hadi

    Ibn Hadi Ya Ghaus e Azam Dastageer

    Regarding Shaykh Gibril's note on the Ghumari school, yes they did have some Shia leanings but they never claimed to be Mujtahid Mutlaq. This is a lie attributed to Hafidh Ahmad Al Ghumari.

    Him and Shaykh Abdullah Al Ghumari mastered both the Maliki and Shafi'i madhabs. And they did their ijtihad according to Usul of Shafi'i madhab.

    When it comes to criticizing Sufis it was only those groups that engaged in bidah. Also they preferred doing Tafwid over Taweel with regards to Allah's attributes.

    I have talked to several of their students. Aside from Tafzil, none of the other accusations against them are true.
     

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