Perennialism, Lings and Hamza Yousef

Confronting Islamophobia by nuh keller
http://www.sunnipath.com/Events/confronting-islamophobia/

 

Oh, the irony!

 

You have been on the net for quite a while on different forums. You were not on a hunt after him before. Nuh Keller has been speaking on this for years now in his suhbas around the world, especially those in North America. Another one's coming up on April 29. His views on most issues mentioned in this thread are known and recorded.

I think you dont know this, but imkan al kizb was present in his standard published writing before everybody came to know he supported this idea explicitly in public through that audio introduced to you on Sunniport. It was there since the mid 1990s. I have the writing.

His first ever appearance becoming a Sufi shaikh of the Shadhili Order was in mid 1990s in a place in North America, and it was with Hamza Yusef.

Sunnis fall into personality business for years, impressed by the craze and some other things, and blindly run with the crowd, keeping quiet. And when that personality reveals itself too publicly on the enemy's side, then they go into a state of war with themselves. Others being compelled to go on a hunt.
Suddenly, everything has changed. If only Sunnis spend time reading than chatting on the net.

 

this should be interesting; to see what he says and how it ties up with the rest of the issues mentioned in this thread:

http://110417-qibla.eventbrite.com/...l&utm_campaign=110411-ConfrontingIslamophobia

 

from their FAQ's page

http://www.acommonword.com/index.php?lang=en&page=faq

underlining by me

 

The common word website has been updated:

http://www.acommonword.com/

http://ammanmessage.com/media/openLetter/english.pdf

 

faqir, if your answers are the same as our answers then that means that your answers are different from those of HY so why did you accuse members of this forum of slander and witch-hunt? after all, both opinions cannot be correct at the same time.

 

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs//2010/ga11013.doc.htm

 

kindly stop putting words into my mouth. i am not here to stand trial - suffice to say my answers are the same as the others on this forum.

 

sidi AQ if faqir responds I will be surprised. People are quick to label Sunnis as pir worshippers etc. and blind followers but we are the most just and fair when it comes to judging others according to Shariat and not vice´versa.

 

I think someone should send this list of questions asked by Sidi AQ to Sunni alims for their fatwa on the speaker of such statements with names of the speakers like HY and AHM removed. Send them to Bareilly, Kiocchocha, Dawate Islami ifta centre, al Azhar, Damascus (Shaykh Yaqoubi), and to the Habaib and to shaykh GF Haddad. Lets see the response.

These are the questions:

 

Apparently, you haven't seen a lot of Faqeer. He never answers, he only questions. You only need to check his posting history to understand his modus operandi.

 

It was this thread that I spoke to you. This and that TJ Winters thread both look same.

I didn't ask you to check the allegations. I asked you to give YOUR beliefs on those mentioned items in light of the Islamic creed, leaving alone personalities.

Anyway, you are just as knowledgeable or ignorant as the rest of us, so I would appreciate if you could give your stance based on your Islamic knowledge on the 9 items I mentioned, standing on their own, leaving personalities out of it.

As much as I respect you, refusing to do so (stating your stance) implies nothing but a lack of confidence in not only yourself, but also your creed, and is another way of saying "My beliefs rest on what these people say. If they have said it, then I uphold it. If not, then not. Since this thread relates to them saying/doing these things, and I don't know what they have said/done, I can't comment either way."

1) Is there Prophet's shafa3ah for christians and jews?
...
...

Let us all at least be sure of the statuses of these points in light of the Islamic creed as known to all of us.

 

what zaid shakir has said (and i have heard it on youtube myself some time ago), if he has really said it (and if it is not a doctored video), it is a kalimah of kufr. deleting it from youtube won't make it go away on the day of judgement.

whether the person ought to be ruled kafir, is pending investigation. [need to ascertain why he said so, whether he really said so, what was his intention etc.]

nevertheless, it is a kalimah of kufr and muslims should be warned against repeating such a statement. the mistake of zayd and amr should not become proof for the ignorant public to repeat it or to consider it tame.

from a comment quoted by AQ:

what then is the difference between the christians and jews who said: 'naHnu abnaau'llahi wa aHibba'uh [mayidah, v.18]

they too do not believe they are sons and daughters of Allah (al-iyadhu billah) except in the figurative sense. if not, why then do they venerate `uzayr (alayhis salam) and according to their gospel (al-iyadhu billahi'l waHidi'l qahhar - lam yalid wa lam yulad) 'the only begotten son' is isa.

from the comment again:

i am sorry, but i think, `iyal is usually used to include the wife as it is rude to ask arabs (and muslims in general) about their wives. i am not an arab, but i have been living in the gulf for a long time - and often i have heard people ask 'kayf al-awlad'. or kayf al-`ayilah meaning 'how is the family'.

i would advise the person who wrote this to check books of fatawa; check the chapter on apostacy.

wa billahi't tawfiq.

-----
if a person doesn't know the basic aqidah or recognize the obvious danger in translating `iyal as 'children', [moreover, it is literally and figuratively incorrect - `iyal cannot be translated as children. `iyal is properly translated as 'dependents'] then he should not be teaching. he should first learn basic aqidah which is necessary for him to save himself from hellfire.

----
our elders would not have tolerated this kind of 'freedom of speech' and carelessness in talking about Allah ta'ala or His Messenger. sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam. and when you read their fatawa or their books, (even heretics and wayward scholars observe this) one thing you won't find amiss is, reverence and deference in all reference to Allah ta'ala and His Messengers sallAllahu alayhim wa sallam.

this reverence and respect becomes so internalized, that when an uncommon word is said about Allah ta'ala or His Messengers, one immediately begins to think whether it is permissible to say this or not.

----
lastly, remember the hadith in which the Messenger of Allah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam said: verily a man utters a word unthinkingly, and because of which he will fall into hellfire for a distance farther than that is between the east and the west. [bukhari 6477, muslim 2988, riyadu's salihin 1515]

imam nawawi comments: yatabayyanu means, that he doesn't [stop to] think whether his speech is good or bad.

---
wAllahu ta'ala a'alam.

 

as-salamu `alaikum, unfortunately brother instead of just calling out a mistake (Allah knows if you even confirm them to be true), time and time again you and some others here have to take it one step further - attacking their personal integrity and character, bordering on making takfir of them, etc. etc.

I don't have time to check all of your allegations though I seriously doubt they are accurate - and those shuyukh don't need my defense they are capable of speaking for themselves if all of your dossier has truly been communicated to them as you say. and finally, a scholar's position is judged by other scholars - and all those shuyukh you mentioned and hate with a vengeance from sh. Nazim to sh. Hamza to my knowledge are widely appreciated and loved by their peers in the East and West. so I will leave it at that and end my contribution to this thread. was-salam.

 

A religious and religiously educated person whom I know and trust in real life told me of it.

I have read/heard it myself some time back, but don't recall now. It's probably on youtube somewhere. This is an issue of or pre 2009.

Here is what I quickly googled up:

See in the comments section of this blog post.

http://www.mujahideenryder.net/2009...dah-abdullah-bin-bayyah-habib-ali-and-others/

As I told faqir on another thread, I am very happy to recant my words. This is not a personal matter. Speaking of faqir, I hope he can at least address the comments individually on the other thread, if not defend/"slander" the personalities.

 

@AbdulQadir: Just out of curiosity, where did Zaid Shakir say 'children of God'.

MaraqilFalah, a user on sunniport once made a video compiling Hamz yousef's dodgy statements. In one statement he said if Rachel Corrie is not forgiven then i'am in the wrong religion.

If Maraqi is reading this, can you please post the video up again?

 

For the record AHM = AbdukHakim Murad (Tim Winters)
HY = Hamza Yusuf
NQ = Nazim Qubrusi
ZS = Zaid Shakir
NK = Nuh Keller

 

:s1:

I am going to quote from Sh. Nuh Keller*, on his article On the Validity of Religions from the website of Masud Ahmad Khan. He writes so beautifully, (*prior to his faux pas on the lying issue) on the matter which concerns us here:

Never have truer words been written. Maybe someone can show this passage to Mr. AHM, HY?

 

That's quite disappointing coming from someone like faqir. It is expected that you place your loyalty to Islamic beliefs above people. People are defined by Islam. Islam is not defined by them. It's a pretty simple concept.

You seem like you're just as knowledgeable as anyone else on a forum. If you can negate the accusations themselves, please do, and I promise to eat my words (I am the only one who mentioned the Habaib, and I did not make any accusations, I asked one of their students for a clarification). OR If you can prove with firm conviction that the mentioned people didn't say the mentioned things, then again, please do. Otherwise you are just witch-hunting the witch-hunters.

So here's my grouse with them:

Please tell me as per your understanding of Islamic creed:

1) Is there Prophet's shafa3ah for christians and jews? (AHM)
2) Are christians and jews kafirs or not? (AHM, HY)
3) Is it allowed to use the phrase "children of God"? (ZS)
4) Is it right to say that it is "not intrinsically impossible" that Allah can lie? (NK)
5) Is it right to extend a doubt to budhhists being pagans and justify their paganhood? (HY)
6) What do the 3ulema say in regards to praying for a dead kafir? (HY)
7) What do the 3ulema say in regards to asking a head kafir (the pope) to "pray" for you? (NQ)
8) What is the Islamic creed on who goes to heaven and who doesn't? (HY)
9) Who according to what you know of Islam, is a "Muslim", and who is a "kafir"?

I hope you will respond to it. If not, then it is understood that you place celebrity fan clubs above knowing and propagating true Islamic beliefs.

I know very consciously I have said that I find these people absolutely worse than wahabis and rafidis put together. We don't need to dig people who are Sunnis when we have enough of wahabis and rafidis to play with. The fact is that it is becoming a phenomenon with these people to boldly poison Islamic creed by playing word games and drawing circles around simple Islamic concepts, misquote and misrepresent major scholars and also Quran and hadith - with utter impunity - and in the process show who they truly are. Being the only "scholars" who know bits and pieces of Arabic more than the jahil masses, I suspect they are terribly abusing and leveraging the Sunni Arab scholars statuses.

Once again, either prove the charges are incorrect based on the manhaj of the Ahlus Sunnah, or prove that these people never made these comments.