Perennialism, Lings and Hamza Yousef

All three have been contacted. HY, AHM and Nuh Keller. Ask them yourself.

AHM is not replying to the e mails and not picking his phone.

HY has been asked regarding Lahori Qadiyanis and he considers the Muslims.

Nuh Keller has been contacted and we have many confirmations from him.

Ask them yourself.

As for the Habaib then we have not slandered the Habaib. One habib was mentioned and that is Habib Ali. No is attacking him because we know he doesn't believe in perennialism. He may hang out with HY but that does not mean he believes in what HY is promoting.

Faqir have you contacted any of the above to clarify? Or have you accepted whatever they have said hook line and sinker?

HY and AHM are on Fons Vitae board of scholars also.

Yes i'm a dog, dog of Madina Munawwara. I will continue barking at the perennialist caravan heading for hell!!!

 

wow, seems like there is a good old fashioned witch-hunt being conducted by certain individuals in various threads on sunniport against shaykhs Hamza, AHM, the Haba'ib, etc etc

its a shame you don't contact them and discuss your issues with them directly instead of continually slandering them behind screen names on a forum and patting each other on the back. i am sure there are perfectly acceptable explanations they could provide you to satisfy your grievance if you would simply ask.

but i suspect you won't and alhamdulillah they will continue to work for the religion and many will continue to benefit from them as they have done in the past. as they say let the dogs bark, the caravan moves on.

p.s. feel free to carry on with the insults and slander - I'll be expecting some coming my way too ;-) , and to Allah is our complaint.

 

The Amman document is in Arabic!

http://ar.acommonword.com/index.php?page=option1

The Amman document in Arabic. I'm sure everyone know what it contains before signing.

 

Sidi Suleyman,

I would like to ask how many of the scholars from the Habaib know proper English and how many have attempted or are attempting to learn proper English.

I feel sorry to say this, but people like Hamza Yusuf, Zaid Shakir, Tim Winters and Nuh Keller and others have made an absolute mockery of Islam, Sunniism and tasawwuf, and sadly the backing of the Habaib only helps give credence to them.

Have their deviancies been brought to the attention to the 3ulema of the Habaib? In fact Habib Ali is a signatory to "A Common Word", does he know that the English document addresses kuffaar as "His Holiness", "His Beatitude", "His Excellency" and so forth, something that is severely disallowed for Muslims to say the least, even for dawah. A kafir simply can't be honoured for his kufr. This is Sunniism. I'm sure they know the hadith of the Prophet where he has told to not initiate salam with christians and jews and to make them walk in the side of the streets.

Are they aware of all the deviancies that this crew has been propagating in the English language?

 

Salamun 'alayka ya habib abu al qasim wa ya 'abd al-habib al-qasim
Peace be upon you, O our beloved abu al-qasim 'alaihi salatu wa salam and upon you O Qasim servant of the beloved

---

Nonetheless, could that translation be posted inshAllah?

 

I dont think he is trying his best to be inclusive towards perennialism - rather it is towards martin lings himself. Is this really a surprise? The work of Lings was one of the catalysts which brought Shaykh Hamza towards islam and he also mentions that Lings has served the Prophet sallahu alayhe wasalam with his work on the seerah.

Does he consider Lings a wali though? i may have missed that part as i have heard in one of his lectures that he does not like people attributing wilayat on others, especially contemporary's.

 

Yes I translated it a few years ago and have added a very brief haashiyah on it. I will post it soon in sha Allah Tabaarak wa Ta'ala.

 

http://www.razanw.org/modules/alahazratbooks/item.php?itemid=227&page=3

I think Aqdas has done the English of the umur ishrin.

 

Asalam u alaykum. No one is or will make takfir inshaAllah. Shaykh Habib Ali (damat barakaatuhu) is not even implicated. So please have that clear. What is also clear that Hamza Yousef does not believe in any perennialism. What i found weird was that Hamza Yousef tries his utmost best to be inclusive for perennialism, and at the same time considers Lings a wali.

Can this be, a man who ascribes to perennialism be a wali? I don't care about what other Shaykhs have said regarding this. I was re-reading the article for the umpeenth time and found it hard to understand how Hamza Yousef can accomadtate Martin Lings? and then there is Gai Eaton also...

 

Shaykh Asrar also refers to it as a recent article...actually its 5 years old and the whole edition is available here:

http://www.q-news.com/363.pdf

 

Shaykh Asrar talked specifically about that q-news article. I don't see how Sh. Hamza or Habib `Ali (who was also mentioned by name) bordered on advocating perrenialism at all...

 

KattarSunni, can you get hold of the document that Shaykh Asrar was talking about in his speech (20 points of aqida by Alahadrat) and post it on the net. JazakAllah Khair.

 

I think maybe KS is asking because Shaykh Asrar has mentioned this article in one of his speeches in which he said Shaykh Hamza was bordering on advocating perennialism. In this same speech Shaykh Asrar has a go at Shaykh Abu Bakr Sudani (aka Ahmed Bibakr) and the government funded "Radical Middle Way" for their defense of the english lady who called a teddy bear by the name of the Prophet sallahu alayhe wasalam in Sudan.

My point is this - Shaykh Asrar is not someone to shy away from criticising others if he feels that what they are teaching is wrong, which is fair.

From my side, i am very biased towards shaykh hamza who through his series of lectures (especially the seerah of the Prophet sallahu alayhe wasalam and the poor's man book of assistance, as well as the translation of series by shaykh abdullah bin bayyah - namely usul and fiqh & legal philosophy of islam) has changed my life more than any other person for the better.

 

If there is a shubhah with regards to takfir, it should not be made. This is what, according to the article, Sh. Hamza and Habib `Ali were doing. Afterall they did make it clear that there were "clear differences with him on the subject
of perennialism".

What is your objective? To make takfir of Habib `Ali and Hamza Yusuf? If you attempt to do so, at least contact Habib `Ali to see what he actually said, hafidhahuLlah. One thing for sure though: Habib `Ali is a sunni in creed and sincere in action and da`wah.

 

Very long article, to save time here is the relevant parts:

Someone who was present brought up a thorny issue that
was the source of the many warnings I had received about Dr.
Lings� books. The subject had to do with the belief that the
world�s great religious traditions - Judaism, Christianity,
Hinduism and Buddhism - teach essentially the same perennial
truths as Islam does and therefore, like Islam, they each
retain a validity of practice to this day. The subject is referred
to in modern discourse as �Perennialism.�
Dr. Lings responded to the question with comments that
were highly philosophical. He reasoned that it is God�s
Wisdom and His Will to keep these spiritual traditions alive
until the present day. Dr. Lings substantiated his arguments
with verses from the Quran. It was evident to me that the outward
and apparent meaning of the verses he cited affirmed
what he said but his interpretation was certainly not the classical
view of the verses as understood by the accepted exegetes

of the Quran throughout Islam�s history.
Even so, both Habib �Ali and I felt that, while Dr. Lings�
view on the subject was not mainstream, it was not a complete
rejection of the classical Islamic position which holds that previous
religious dispensations were abrogated by the final message
of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, and certainly
his own conversion to Islam indicated that fact. What
we heard instead was a rather novel interpretation based upon
Dr. Lings� own thought and reading of sacred traditions that
he had most likely inherited from his teachers. It is in fact a
position entertained by the late Fazlur Rahman in his book,
Major Themes of The Qur�an.
The underlying justification for this approach is an attempt
to reconcile the scriptural antinomy of an all-merciful deity who
displays wrath, in which a focus on God�s overriding mercy
mentioned in the Quran extenuates those scriptural statements
that stress eternal wrath. An abstruse issue that several classical
scholars wrestled with including Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah, Imam
Al-Ghazzali and Shaykh Ibn �Arabi al-Hatimi.
I interjected at one point and mentioned Imam al-
Ghazzali�s orthodox and yet satisfying view presented in his
intriguing Faisal al-tafriqah that suggests that the majority of
Christians and Jews and even peoples of other faiths and
creeds could ultimately gain salvation since they did not reject
a true and compelling presentation of Islam.
What they rejected rather was the tragic misrepresentation
through distortion or the bad behavior of those who claimed
to follow the true teachings of the Prophet Muhammad. Thus,
according to Imam al-Ghazzali, this allowed for God�s ultimate
forgiveness for the masses of humanity.

Both Habib �Ali and I felt that Dr. Lings was most certainly
a devout and pious Muslim, fully committed to the teaching
of the Prophet and one who rooted his thought and practice in
the Quran despite our clear differences with him on the subject
of perennialism. I believe that his spiritual presence was a
cogent argument for his practice and commitment.

-----

 

The Q News article of Hamza Yousef was mentioned in a recent speech. I want to know the views o knowledgeable people regarding the article. I will post the parts on perennialism. the full article can be found online:

http://www.islamicaweb.com/forums/religion-spirituality/9054-shaykh-hamza-yusufs-tribute-martin-lings-news.html