Pir Hasnain Shah lectures on Tafzil

Also what is all this pir hasnain stuff? He has attacked Sahaba and Awliyah many times on the net yet we give him such titles here.

 

I have watched most of part 3 and after watching it I can guarantee this is not hasnains research. This is all the work of Molvi Abdul Qadir and Molvi Zahid Rizvi. The reason why these two didn't say all this in open is because they knew they would get themselves into trouble with Sunni Scholars. Also Molvi Zahid funny enough still claims to be a Rizvi and this is his son refuting Alahazrat. I think he was the cameraman here, no one is stupid to believe this is Hasnains research. I know he might be refuted here but I think a young Sunni Scholar needs to reply back on YouTube.

 

thats gg in the video?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtube_gdata_player&v=D_mJvK01vy8

This link should work, gg is getting very emotional in this part.

 

gg pm to me

http://www.youtube.com/user/SeaOfIsl.../0/D_mJvK01vy8


why dont you put up all three parts on sunnaforum for refutation? or are scared, it may convince people!

 

Watch this at 6 mins. Pir Sayyid Abdul Qadir Shah Sahib mentions different types of ijma':

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7vM6tr96D8

He mentions:

Ijma' Nassi and says this is daleel qati'.

He says Ijma' Sukuti is a daleel but it is dhanni.

Third is Ijma' Murakkab (compounded ie that which has numerous sayings within a confined boundary).

Can anyone actually make any sense of Shah Sahib's theory on ijma'??

 

Muhammad Ali can you save this video of Pindi Shah Sahib before Tahir deletes it.

 

Some additional questions if you don't mind. When Shah Sahib had he's old opinion in the above video he said:

Afdaliyy is position of jamhur and ijma'. Then he said rejection is fisq and bida'. Does this mean rejection of jamhur opinions is fisq and bida'?? Does this mean that rejection of ijma' dhanni is also fisq and bida'??

Shah Sahib says rejection of ijma' qati' is kufr, and rejection of ijma' dhanni is fisq and bida'? Has Shah Sahib changed his position since on ijma'?? What does he think of rejection of ijma' dhanni and jamhur now???

As an elder and learned man were not these distinctions of ijma' dhanni and ijma' qati' clear? And also the distinctions of jamhur, ijma' dhanni and ijma' qati'? Why the change of stance on such vital issues and why would he expect other U'lama to have a change of heart on such vital issues and distinctions if he has held them for over half a century??

What category would ijma' on the four schools fall into?? And similar issues?? Would they fall into ijma' dhanni, ijma' qati' or jamhur?? What is the ruling of the one who rejects this ijma' on the four schools?

 

My brother Abu Fadl I sincerely apologise of any past insults and name calling.

Sayyid Irfan Shah Sahib does not believe that rejection of Tafdil is kufr. The reports have got it wrong. If Shah Sahib has not corrected that report then the brothers who have contact with him can contact him to do so.

The video of Pir Sayyid Abdul Qadir Shah Sahib is just nearly 3 years old. I do not think that is a very long time. Shah Sahib as a learned scholar would know what is meant by jamhur and ijma'. When did Shah Sahib change his mind and when did he start writig 'Zubda'. Because there are talks of Shah Sahib mentioning 'Zubda' from over two years ago. He only released the book after much demand on this subject.

I will place some questions again:
Is Shah Sahib's position different to ours?

Is rejection of afdaliyya fisq and bida'?

Are jamhur and ijma' synonyms?


In this video Shah Sahib says he will deliver a lecture on ijma' and jamhur. At 4 mins onwards:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBjuxZC8UcU

Do any of the brothers have these lectures??

Within the above lectures there are many questions as well. Like what is the hukm on the one who rejects khilafah? What's the difference between ijma' on khilafah and afdaliyya?? Is Ijma' Dhanni hujja at all?? etc etc We can cover a lot of ground when these issues are broached.
When is Zubda vol 2 out. As I have read vol 1.?

 

Thank you abu fazl for admitting above. As everyone knows Tench Bhatwi Shah Sahib is out of his depth in deriving rules and aqida from the sources. It's best if he follows and retires.

Looks like E17 got influenced by Mamduh's book!

 

Some of the brothers are getting into a dogmatic twist about this and calling names and all sorts. I mean cusses and discrediting people does not actually answer any questions. Some people need to just chill, or have a cup and tea and talk about it in a relaxed manner.

As for wearing the aqeedah on your sleeve then I think many in the jamhoor camp have said they believe Hz Siddiqu is afzal. It's a bit silly to expect them to have the same fire in their belly on the issue as you, for the simple fact that they do not consider those people who held afzal someone other than Hz Abu Siddiue as deviant (or kafir) - that should be rather obvious.

 

KS that's actually a very old video and who's not to say that Jilani Shah Saheb came to his position after undertaking extensive research on the topic. From what I know and have heard from some ulama is that Shah Saheb was of the opinion of other barelwis, generally depending of the statements of Ala Hazrat and other secondary statements before he started reading into the topic for himself.

In any case it's pointless to discuss that as what matters is what his actual position is and (what position anyone else holds right now on the matter) and we all know what that is in very clear terms from the book and speeches (so an old snippet that is quite ambiguous, in contrast, is meaningless).

Most us did not know there was difference in this matter only until very recently and this is a topic that has unravelled quite rapidly over the last few years, with a lot of information coming out from both sides.

Mashaddi Shah Saheb I think may have made his opinion clearer now as we have the kufr declaration on anyone who does not accept afzaliat of Hz Siddique.

 

I will answer best to my ability sir. Following a minority opinion is not fisq or bida' if there is no ijma' on that issue.

We agree there is no ijma' on ayaat altat-heer interpretation. Whatever position within the divergent opinions within orthodoxy one takes it is allowed.

 

With all due respect, that does not answer the question:

Our claim: Ijma' on afdaliya, rejection of which is fisq.

Shah Sahibs claim: He says jamhur and ijma' at one time rejection of which is fisq and bida'.

Shah Sahib has made jamhur and ijma' synonyms.

Questions repeated with more questions. It would be appreciated if you can answer them:

Is Shah Sahib's position different to ours?

Is rejection of afdaliyya fisq and bida'?

Are jamhur and ijma' synonyms?

 

Dont jump to another question GG ji! Answer brother KS question above!

 

ayat e tatheer was revealed for the panjtan paak. it is the jamhur position. what would the denier of that be? for evidence see below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTmQ7wm59vQ


and then watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDugoCfyUNw&feature=related

 

Brother GG I have a serious question. Sidi Aqdas posted this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-J9IjKrAQE

Pir Sayyid Abdul Qadir Shah Sahib says after 8 mins and 30 that:

1 That jamhur mufassirin say afdaliyya of Siddique radiyAllahu anhu

2 Not everyone has ittifaaq on this

3 You can call the munkir of this ijma' a mubtadi' and faassiq but not kaafir!!

I don't understand how point number 3 is any different to our position?

So Shah Sahib does/or did hold the munkir of afdaliyya a faasiq??

 

we also follow the fatwa of IMAMS of ahlesunnah who tell us tafzil is not biddah!

 

the meaning of things:

AH, g said:

and the REPLY was:

Oh là là!! someone has touched a raw nerve somewhere. you are soooooooo wound up ghulam e zidd. drink some ruh afza with some crushed ice, it will cool you down. I really feel sorry for you my dear brother. try using your 'own' brain for a day. write something. all you are is clips. clip this, clip that, exposed, breaking news, etc.

remember brother, dushman maray te khusi na karye, sajna wee marjana. I have decided that I will neither address nor reply to any of your things because sometimes x is a matter of facticity. Khuda Hafiz and Ya Ali madad! Haider! Haider! Haider!