Pir Hasnain Shah lectures on Tafzil

Discussion in 'Aqidah/Kalam' started by chisti-raza, Nov 15, 2011.

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  1. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    quote
    illustration:
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2011
    abu Hasan, Oct 22, 2011
    #8
  2. ghulam e Ghaus

    ghulam e Ghaus Guest

    the meaning of things:
     
    ghulam e Ghaus, Oct 22, 2011
    #7
  3. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    slightly related: http://www.sunniport.com/masabih/showpost.php?p=25634&postcount=1

    you see, nj, innovators first of all like to substantiate a false aqida. they won't come out and admit to holding this aqida themselves but will work slowly and surely so that this false aqida becomes widespread and somewhat accepted.

    take the example of gangohi. he wrote that 1. imkan e kizb was a heresy, 2. imkan e kizb is not heresy, 3. wuqu' e kizb is kufr, 4. wuqu' e kizb is not kufr - and all four writings were chronological.

    if he had wrote 4. straight away, there is a good chance he would have been sidelined by one and all but he worked gradually to substantiate the heresy of imkan and wuqu' e kizb.

    similarly, there is a good chance that what the UK tafzeelis planned was to firstly disown tafzeel and call it a bid'ah, watch at 8:35 here. so, this can be called stage 1. they are currently on stage 2 attempting to substantiate this aqida and their stage 3 will be to openly proclaim that they are tafzeelis themselves. they can only do this when their stage 2 has a very solid foundation and is well accepted amongst the laymen sunni masses.

    soona jangal, raat andheri, Chaayi badli kaali hai
    sone waalo, jaagte rahiyo, choroN ki rakhwaali hai

    as the monthly raza e mustafa, gujranwala, often warns:

    hoshyaar, sunni musalman, hoshyaar
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2011
    Aqdas, Oct 22, 2011
    #6
  4. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    actually, that's a classic tactic of deviants.

    defending a position 'someone else holds' is, to these foolish people, the way of ensuring that the convictions of deviancy do not fall on them. these people are at the lower end of the deviancy spectrum in terms of gutsiness where they do not even have the oomph to man up to publicly declare their position.

    any time someone criticizes the position or those holding it, these 'smart' people can then say, 'it is a respected position held by xyz, don't accuse me of it'

    ibn taymiyah was known to propagate his own crackpot beliefs presenting them as beliefs of "some people said" and then going about justifying them and so on. if ever he would be nabbed for them, he had an exit path "hey, it's what some people say. i never said, i believed in that"

    when a cat drinks milk, it shuts its eyes thinking no one's watching it.

    have a look at all the resident tafzilis like abu fadl, ghulame ghaus et al or for that matter even the fine folk at yanabi.com. have you seen any one of them say boldly, "i believe Ali to be superior to Abu Bakr and Umar" OR "i believe Abu Bakr & Umar to be superior to Ali" (radi Allahu 3anhum)?

    no, they're just busy waxing lyrical about the types of ijma3 and what is the deeper meaning of the words of this scholar and so on. why can't they STATE THEIR BELIEF FIRST and THEN present the daleels for it? because they know, they'd be asking to be creamed.

    one of the surest signs of a Sunni is that he proudly wears his 3aqidah on his sleeve, without all the pot-stirring.

    very soon in sha Allah, in a new thread, i shall be outlining a few 4 or 5 nafsanic problems that our elders have diagnosed with deviants and buffoons. it shall be good fun in sha Allah
     
    AbdalQadir, Oct 22, 2011
    #5
  5. Abu Fadl

    Abu Fadl Banned

    I don't think part three has been released yet and I would like to see what it's about. I am yet to see a response to the first two videos but i'd like to see the thoughts of people as whichever side of the debate you are on, it's raised some interesting points and I think the first time in English.

    Of course there is already quite a bit from the side who says it is Qati, and there many from our Ulama in the Uk and Indo Pak who say this.

    I think the position being defended is that the issue is not Qati as is the claim of those being addressed, but rather that it is zanni and that there was a difference of opinion on the matter.

    That's where the interest lies for most people. Did the scholars of Islam say it is Qati?Did every single Sahabi and Salaf say Hz Abu Bakr Siddique is afzal?

    In doing so you obviously have to then show which people considered which Sahabi as afzal.
     
    Abu Fadl, Oct 22, 2011
    #4
  6. naqshbandijamaati

    naqshbandijamaati Veteran

    what i want to know is, if tafzil is such a non-issue according to these people then why is it written in all the books of aqaid that we believe that the order of superiority of the four righteous caliphs is in the order of their caliphates?

    secondly, why spend so much effort defending a position if you don't hold it yourself?
     
    naqshbandijamaati, Oct 22, 2011
    #3
  7. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    read: "pir sahib will attempt to refute maTla' al-qamarayn in the next lecture and will fail miserably."

    it is not the job of pipsqueaks who can't read qur'an properly to refute masters like alahazrat. these people can't even read the names of alahazrat's books without diacritics and they dare challenge his research?!
     
    Aqdas, Oct 22, 2011
    #2
  8. Ghulam

    Ghulam Veteran

    Ghulam, Oct 22, 2011
    #1
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