Pir Saqib Shami challenge.

Discussion in 'General Topics' started by Inwardreflection, Feb 22, 2021.

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  1. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    someone asked alahazrat about the verse and he answered it in his inimitable style, which is so full of knowledge and foresight that a fraction of that could not be extracted if you put the entire gathering of saqib and singers and shook them for an year, and spun them in a hadron collider.

    marvel at his insight that the fatwa is so fresh, that it appears as if it was written for our times.

    urdu is here, english is coming in sha Allah. [fatawa ridawiyyah 24/ 127-133]

    ...and to differentiate between qualified and unqualified among those who are sane, is to embolden anybody and everybody to commit sin and to open the door of the accursed devil's subterfuge. every fasiq will then claim that he is 'qualified' and therefore it is Halal for him.

    he will commit sin openly and permit that which has been prohibited by Allah ta'ala and will mislead commonfolk, ignorant like himself. does the shariah of RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam permit such things? may Allah ta'ala keep such things away.

    the pristine shariah closes the door to evil [fitna] and this thing [music] opens a huge doorway to sin and therefore how far removed from the noble shariah!

    you can see today, how many ornery, mannerless chumps, rough and boorish who do not even know the basics of ablution and toilet manners; such people who don't know what is farz, wajib, sunnat, makruh and Haram in an ablution. yet they wear ochre robes and grown lengthy hair like women and are engrossed in these satanic sounds day and night...

    Umar99 and Aqdas like this.
  2. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    so this line was just a fantasy:

  3. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    pir mihr ali shah sahib was asked whether sama and dancing were permissible. he dismissed it in one line:
    the judgement of shaykh sa'di as said in these two verses is sufficient.

    na guyem sama'a ay biradar keh cheest
    magar mustami'y raa badanam keh keest

    brother, i cannot tell you what sama'a is [the ruling]
    until i know who the listener is.

    Attached Files:

  4. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    your hunch is right.

    na guyem sama'a ay biradar keh cheest
    magar mustami'y raa badanam keh keest

    brother, i cannot tell you what sama'a is [the ruling]
    until i know who the listener is.

    this is a verse of shaykh sa'adi in his bustan.
  5. Ba gooyam sama' ay biradar ke cheest
    Magar mustama' ra badanam ke keest

    O' my brother I will say what musical audition is
    But I know (also) who is a (qualified) listener.

    This doesn't quite make sense so my hunch is that there is a typo and that
    the nukta should be on the top to make the first word nagooyam (I do not say) or -- since it is probably a classic Farsi text which has slightly different grammar to modern persian if we get rid of the dot altogether and assume the calligrapher meant the first letter to be a meem then it becomes magooyam (which in classical farsi means I am not saying/I do not say)

    I do not say, o my brother, what musical audition (qawwali/sama) is
    But I do know who is a (qualified) listener!
  6. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    can NJ translate this verse from persian to english?

    Attached Files:

    • sama.png
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  7. Really, we await his response to the points raised in the risaalah by the Imam 'alaihi al rahmah wal ridwaan on jawaaz e aalaat e mawsiqi o raqs e fusaaq o fujjaar
  8. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    apparently saqib will prove by fatawa ridawiyyah itself that alahazrat would have permitted it.
    Ghulam Ali and azharimiyan like this.
  9. For the mutasawwif e zamanah

    Those that oppose the view should write a detailed written response to the risaalah by A'ala Hadrat radi Allahu Ta'ala 'anhu. If they have the himmah lets see their answers.

    The ruling on Qawwali with musical instruments by A'ala Hadrat Shaykh al Islam al Mujaddid al Aazam Imam Ahmad Rida al Qadiri al Barkaati rahimahullahu Ta'ala


    Masayil e Samāá
    Published by Admin on 2008/7/5 (939 reads)

    Page: (1) 2 3 4 ... 23 »

    مسائل سماع
    متصوفہ زمانہ کی مجلس سماع و سرور کا شرعی حکم


    Page: (1) 2 3 4 ... 23 »
  10. chisti-raza

    chisti-raza Veteran

    This person who wrote the book makes it seem as if Sayyid Mehr Ali had a debate with true Ulama [from N.W.F.P] about Sama and he defeated them. This seems doubtful to me, for which true Sunni scholar [Hanafi] makes takfir of someone for merely partaking in music?
  11. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    you are prejudiced fanatic who sees everything through the prism of your own ideas. closed mind. why is it difficult for you to believe it? isn't wiki far more reliable than fawayidul fuaad?

    and what about the names? see? saqib quoted half a dozen names and i will still believe him even if he was disproved from his own sources.
  12. chisti-raza

    chisti-raza Veteran

    and from the same link that you posted to support your view:

  13. chisti-raza

    chisti-raza Veteran

    I am sorry but this is nothing but an exaggeration.
  14. i know it is only wiki but this article corresponds fairly well to what is commonly known and accepted about amir khusraw dihlawi:


    and it is well referenced too.

  15. ok i am not going to change your mind and nor you mine so let's drop it.

    just for the record here is an article from pir naseer's website about pir mihr ali's view on sama:
    http://www.pirnaseeruddinnaseer.com/article_detaild649.html?CAT=Syed Mehr Ali Shah&ID=29

    it is my responsibility to provide evidence on the statements about amir khusraw and mevlana rumi. insha Allah. but you still wouldn't change your mind right and accept musical instruments as permissible under certain conditions?
  16. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    sub'HanAllah, they don't heed the hadith, would they heed qawl-e-mihr?

    i said that i doubt it. my yardstick for anyone is their adherence to shariah and the principles of ahlu's sunnah.

    in fantasies and slanders and speeches of ignorant maulvis. prove it otherwise.

    sub'HanAllah! do you have any dependable source or is it enough that you or some xyz maulvi said it?

    i cannot argue with fantasies. i am sorry. if you have any proof present it.

    i am sorry NJ. i am forced to agree with AQ: you cannot read and you have no comprehension.

    we can still remain friends.

    wa billahi't tawfiq.
    imam shafiyi said: 'whenever i have debated an ignoramus, he silenced me; and whenever i debated a knowledgeable person, i silenced him.'
  17. Sidi AH, I'm very impressed by your knowledge of islamic texts but why then is hazrat pir sayyid mihr ali shah sahib 'qualified' but pir naseeruddin shah not? Also the sons and grandsons of Pir Sahib, amongst them Shah Abdul Haq sahib --who is considered a wali by all Pakistani sunni ulema and awaam as far as i know--
    all still listen to the qawwali with musical instruments. in fact there are youtube clips available of shah naseer :ra: going into wajd whilst listening to it and also clips of shah abdul haqq sahib attending such mahafil too. surely if pir mihr ali shah did not approve of it he would have instructed his sons etc. also not to listen!

    I also do not see how you can say with such authority that you do not 'think pir naseer is qualified'. how can you make such a moral judgement?

    thirdly you mentioned the ancient masters but isn't the historical evidence the contrary, that many ancient masters did listen to musical instruments? hazrat amir khusraw is known to have invented the sitar and qawwali music as we know it today by combining elements of persian and hindustani classical music and he was a famed musician (read his biography by anyone you choose); all the qawwal gharanas link themselves to him one way or another and he was the favourite mureed of hazrat nizamuddin awliya besides whom he is buried too!

    what of people like hazrat bakhtiyaar kaki who died during the performance of a qawwali or mawlana rumi who even left instructions for his janazah to be accompanied with singing and drums and musical instruments and whose order the Mevlevis to this day use the ney (reed flute) in their zikr?

    i accept ala hazrat's opinion was against musical instruments but why cannot you accept that many prominent shuyukh of the past had a different opinion--even amongst his contemporaries.

    as shaami sahib said it is not a matter of aqidah. otherwise we would have to conclude that all those saints like pir mihr ali and rumi etc. were engaged in sin (nauzubillah.)
  18. Taalib-e-Ilm

    Taalib-e-Ilm Well-Known Member

    and also, what about the part in Risala-e-Qushayriya regarding music?
  19. Taalib-e-Ilm

    Taalib-e-Ilm Well-Known Member

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