@chisti-raza if it's not a bother, can you please attach snapsshots of the relevant pages here? many thanks jazakAllahu khayran
After reading Ala Hazrat's answer in Jadd al-Mumtar I assure you that you will want to cry tears from the eye and the heart in realizing what we (the ummah) have lost when someone like Ala Hazrat radiAllahu 'anhu was taken away!
Ala Hazrat explains this in Jadd al-Mumtar. It is an amazing explanation! There is nothing wrong with using science to aid in the sighting of the moon but the sighting has to be with the naked eye.
If calculations tell us that the sighting is IMPOSSIBLE in a given condition and yet two qualified witnesses claim that they have sighted the moon, who do we trust? Do the books of fiqh elaborate on this, given that calculations were always around? can we summarily dismiss their claims on the grounds of technology/calculations?
Why do you insist on another method other than looking up at the sky with your eyes? The religion is ease and technology is a fitna in our day because it is part of the dajjalic system to confuse, become lazy, mesmorise people, indoctrinate wrong ideas, serve the nafs and shaytan.
Time to train our eyes for Eid/Shawwal moonsighting. Other links: here, here If the moon is patently unsightable on 4th July, what chances of having Eid declared for 5th July? We may have a "happy coincidence" of everyone observing Eid on 6th July, as Saudis have made up their mind for 30 day Ramadan.
is it prohibited? Why then use even telescope to find the moon? If you quit using technical data then those who mock at religion will still ridicule it. Why do we need to separate science from deen?
I am sorry but these debates happen every year, confusion and chaos ensue. All sorts of debates with technical data gets examined. Big words like hubble telescope (yes its big to some people) get examined, checked, re checked. Look how much fitna is caused by technology? Who is the one laughing the most at this each year---who causes confusion and rejoices most? I'll give you one guess. Why can't we just stick to the Hadith and be happy with the formula of using our blessed eyes. The religion is easy
Let's say the visibility charts are 99.9% accurate (i.e. only in 0.1% of the cases is it possible to see the moon with naked eye outside the limit). Then what? ----- Let me turn around and argue that even if the visibility charts are incorrect 0.1% times, Saudi new moon declaration is still deeply flawed. Anecdotally Saudi month starts 60% of the times even before the visibility charts deem it probable. When I say anecdotally, I am simply looking at sample of 3 months (Ramadan, Shawwal & Dhul-Hijj) every year for last 11 years, when Saudi declaration has preceded even before it was possible for moon to be visible (not just in Makkah, but also in areas to the west of it). What does it prove? That only in 0.1% of the 60% cases would it have been possible to sight the moon in Saudia, which still went ahead and declared the start of new month. Saudi would still be wrong 59.94% of times (i.e. 60%*99.9%), while remaining times they are right by sheer coincidence! So which model is better?
why it has to be impossible? If it is not then do scientific calculations become invalid? We use al-dhan al-ghalib in many sharai'y rulings, why scientific calculations can't be treated so along with actual sightings. Also, do we have data to prove that these calculations are completely/partially/mostly/rarely wrong?
I too had this question in mind. I am not sure if this has been empirically tested on a large sample to rule even one single exception. There are few faqs related to that here (check the last one). The visibility criteria and charts claim that moon can't be visible with naked eye if outside danjon limit. The so-called world-records for thinnest crescent have used advanced imaging tools (also here). Even Sultan's paper that is cited as refutation of danjon's limit used 200x magnification. Hasanzadeh claims that danjon limit is indeed supported by observation data. See the last section of his paper on the so-called record-breaker. The fact that the astronomer's have needed to resort to powerful photometry and capturing the "most perfect condition" to break the danjon limit clearly suggests that naked eye can't see the crescent outside the visibility chart.
can the moon be sighted EVEN if the moon-visibility charts show that it is 'impossible' according to calculations? is it established empirically that it is absolutely impossible for the moon to be visible if it doesn't show on the visibility maps?
Here is a critique of Danjon's limit. It seems that while the limit works well (and is practical) for naked eye visibility, use of optical aids and advanced imaging techniques can render this limit meaningless. Should the "simple" ummah even resort to telescope etc.? ------- A comprehensive list of research papers on moon visibility can be found here.
We Muslims need to get used to the fact that few months will be 29 days long, while others will be 30 days. Statistically, approx. 50% of the months will start after 29th. There should be no embarrassment if the moon can't be sighted on 29th. After all, several hadiths testify to the fact that if moon can't be sighted then 30 days should be completed (see Bahar-e-Shariat on moonsighting). Why is the patience and extra caution not exercised in matters such as these? There's a collective sigh of relief and elation when Eid moon is sighted (or announced), while any lack of sighting is met with disappointment! ---- In case of UK, if local moon sighting were to be used as strict criteria, then each and every month will end up being 30 days long (for reasons outlined in my earlier post). Hence UK has no choice but to use global sighting in the same longitude. It is worth clarifying that if moon is sighted in Morocco & South Africa, while UK is still outside the moon visibility danjon limit then these sightings can't be used to start the new month in UK. Only when sighting is coupled with possible visibility in UK, can the new month start.
in pakistan moon sighting committees do take into account moon sighting prediction from science, for example as per scientific calculations moon sighting was not possible on 29th rajab because moon's altitude from the horizon was 8 degrees 7 minutes, the duration of moon sighting was 44 minutes, and new moon's age was 19 hours. usually if moon's altitude is less than 9 degree, new moon age is less than 20 hours, and sighting duration (after sunset) is less than 40 minutes than usually moon sighting is not possible. so, the moon was not sighted and rajab was of 30 days. this ramadan, as per calculations, will be of 29 days, because the age of the new moon will be 27:57, the duration of moon sighting (duration b/w sunset and moon set) will be 44 minutes, and the altitude will be 8 degrees 22 minutes, because of the age and visibility duration moon sighting is possible on 29th ramaDan this year. the problem with saudi calendars is that not only they rely on the birth of new moon (which cannot be seen), they also base the birth of new moon according to Greenwich time. the reason moon sighting committees have to take these calculations into account is that let say they get a sahadat of moon sighting, and the witness tells the time of sighting when moon had already set, or he tells an altitude which do not match with the data then shahadat will not be accepted as moon would already have set. http://www.pmd.gov.pk/cdpc/probables.pdf
This paper has a brief survey of popular criteria in use. The paper that you posted used Yallop criterion, while this one by Odeh himself devises Odeh criterion. Incidentally the links that I posted earlier (1, 2) use Odeh criterion, while this and yours use Yallop's. On the other hand, the moonsighting.com uses its own "khalid shaukat" criterion. If you read the papers on 2 criteria, the differences are fairly minor, with little tweaks here and there. So whichever criterion is employed the moon-visibility chart is not going to be dramatically different. The case in point is the moon visibility chart produced by both Yallop and Odeh criterion for 5th June 2016. In either case, both UK and Saudi were outside the danjon limit (i.e. it was impossible to view the moon in these countries on 5th June). There is no dearth of "expert" opinions and papers (including one here) on moon sighting, although as you would expect most would be by Muslim astronomers. Few more papers here: ozlem, schaefer, kamil, ilyas, USNO, ----- I am not advocating that the moon-visibility charts be used as the sole criteria for new month declaration. I am not saying that just because moon-visibility probability is >0 implies that moon will be sighted. The new month should be based on the following methodology/algorithm: 1. The birth of moon (mahaq) Has the moon been born? [science in use] No, stop (i.e. declare that new month hasn't started) Yes, go to step 2 2. Moon visibility (notice that it is not same as sighting) Is the moon visible? [use moon visibility chart] {in case of differences in visibility charts using different criterion, use the most conservative one} No, stop (i.e. declare that new month hasn't started) Yes, go to step 3 3. Moon sighting Has the moon been sighted? Usual rules of shahadah would apply. [use local or global sighting principle, as applicable. I understand that either of these are valid, although local sighting is the strongest of the opinion] [Should telescope or airplanes be used for sighting? Probably not, but there is difference of opinion on this] No, declare that new month hasn't started and wait to complete 30th day. Yes, declare that new month has started So science is not to be used as the sole criteria, but only to determine the possibility of sighting. Birth precedes visibility, which in turn precedes sighting. One can't be satisfied with just birth or visibility. I have pointed out several times in this forum that Saudi use of birth of moon (and add few hours to it) as the sole criterion is reminiscent of jewish practice. See this article on metonic method used by jews. ----- I think someone asked on this thread, why does UK use Morocco or South Africa sighting reports. Primarily because both these countries are in the similar longitudinal range (i.e. Hilal confirmation from these places, which are just to the east of UK, is acceptable). Here is something on Morocco, which confirms the robust sighting mechanism in place there. Besides the mostly unclear weather in UK, the new moon is usually un-sightable here due to higher latitude, where the moon doesn't pop high enough above the horizon to be seen by naked eye. ---- P.S.: I had made similar post here about 4 years back
how reliable is the 'science' of predicting new moon? what are the accuracy levels? are there known problems with existing models? --- if you google this topic - most of the literature comes from muslim sources, which usually assumes these 'scientific methods' to be unquestionable (or so it appears). i tried to trace which models are used to 'predict' moon visibility. i found some. please share if you have more literature. http://astro.ukho.gov.uk/download/NAOTN69.pdf http://astro.ukho.gov.uk/moonwatch/nextnewmoon.html
