saudi hajj announcement

Discussion in 'General Topics' started by sunnistudent, Jan 8, 2015.

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  1. sunnistudent

    sunnistudent Veteran

    Saudi government announced sighting of eid al adha moon on 24th September 2014, which means 25th Sept.2014 was the 1st Dhul Hijjah 1435 Hijri as per Saudi government.
    Many sunni scholars who went to Hajj this year disagreed with this date and had permission to do tawwaf as per the corrected date. Raza Aacademy issued a letter in this regard, which can be seen below

    Many moon sighting website discussed this Saudi blunder

    http://www.islamicmoon.com/#Saudi_Dates_Neither_Shariah_nor_Astronomy_
     

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  2. medni

    medni Active Member

    Saudi Arabia will look for the Dhul Hijjah 1431 moon on Saturday, 28th of Dhul Qaidah 1431 (6 November 2010), according to actual moon sighting, says Saudi Press Agency (SPA) website. Read More Below Important press release/Dhul Hajjah 1431 AH Respected Guest It has never been the Wifaq ul Ulama position to speculate on the declarations of the Saudi Supreme court, but this time the Saudi Press Agency press release below, has taken us all by surprise, and there has been a steady influx of emails requesting us for comments and guidance. Please read belowع إىٚ p://www.spa.gov.sa/details.php?id=832736&lite=


    This press release very clearly state that on Friday the 8th of October 2010, which was the 29th of Shawwal, no Hilal was seen in Saudi Arabia, with the Naked Eye Nor with Telescope. This clearly means according to the Sahih Hadith of Bukhari that the next day is the Thirtieth of Shawwal. (… if the sky is cloudy for you, then complete the number (of thirty) Muslim Sharif, Hadith #2379) From this press release we can clearly deduce that Shawwal had thirty days. The month of Dhul Qa’dah commenced on Sunday the 10th of October 2010. This would result in the fact that Saturday the 6th of November is still the 28th of Dhul Qa’dah in Saudi Arabia according to the SPA press release.
    Surprisingly this statement is asking the people to go out to sight the hilal on Saturday night, as although it is still the end of the 28th day, according to the actual sighting Calendar, it is the end of the 29th day according to the Umm ul Quraa Calendar. The Hadith of our Nabi Sallahu Alaihi Wasallam very clearly instructs us to follow the announcement based on actual sighting, not on pre calculated new Moon based calendars. Hence it is of great importance that we make the people who blindly follow the announcements of Riyadh, through Hilal committees here in the UK, or through TV channels aware, that it is Impossible that Sunday the 7th of November is the 1st of Dhul Hajjah in Saudi Arabia, as it is still the 29th of Dhul Qa’dah according to actual sighting. Eid Ul Adha cannot be on Tuesday the 16th of November, as it would still be the 8th or the 9th of Dhul Hajjah. It has to be on the Wednesday the 17th or Thursday the 18th of November according to this SPA press release. If the month of Dhul Hajjah is declared on Sunday the 7th of November 2010, then this is a very clear indication by the Saudi Supreme Court that their policy has changed and now, throughout the Twelve months the Umm ul Qura calendar, which is not based on actual sighting, is being followed. It would also be a clear announcement that the Umm Ul Qura Calendar is now for civil and religious use. This statement has been released with a clear understanding that as Ulama, we are duty bound to preach that, which is right and correct and in accordance with the principles of our Holy Shariah, and forbid that which is wrong and evil, as we can understand from the Qur’aanic verses below:
    “Let there arise out of you a group inviting to all that is good, enjoining what is right, and forbidding what is wrong. They are the ones to attain success.” Aal-e-Imran, 3:104
    “The believers, men and women, are protectors of each other: they enjoin what is right and forbid what is evil.” Tauba, 9:71 “You are the best community that has been raised for mankind. You enjoin good and forbid evil and you believe in Allah.” Aal-e-Imran, 3:110 We pray to Allah Almighty that guide us on the Sirat e Mustaqeem, and unite the Ummah upon the truth. Aameen
     
  3. sunnistudent

    sunnistudent Veteran

    The astronomical calculation tells that when the moon will be "born". This does not mean that the next day will be taken as the first of the next lunar month, because Islamic Shariah demands 'sighting" of the moon and not its being "born". ( All this is for people on earth)

    To the best of my knowledge none of the Saudi scholar has announced that moon has been sighted. It means the annoucement from Saudi Kingdom is based on astronomical calculation.Based on this system it is very easy to announce the eid dates for the next 1000 years.

    The Saudi scholars should be the first to declare that this annoucement is based on astronomical calculation. They should also make it clear that their official position is based on calculation and not on sighting.
    This will be very difficult for them to say because they claim to be 'ahlul hadith" .


    Using calculation to show that moon could not have been sighted is not wrong because the one who announced did not have any witeness to prove his claim. And to the best of my knowledge hanbali fiqh does not follow global sighting, they prefer local sighting. That is , if these saudi wahabis claim to follow hanabli fiqh ( which they do not).


    Plus, if we study Lunar Calender or simply observe it in our life, there is no moon sighting for the period of 24 hours from the period ending the "moon less night"( called amavasya in Hindi).


    What you suggested it totally true that this must be discussed at the highest level and I think Saudi scholars who are against astronomical calculation method should be the first to do this.
     
  4. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    Brothers, my point is you're giving them way too much credit for evil genius. Administration-wise, I assure you that finishing off the Hajj a day early or a day late doesn't affect their grand scheme of things one single bit. In fact, delaying it by a day would mean just that much more Hajj income for them. During Hajj time, a day's worth of hajis' expenditure means a lot.

    Their official muftis are anti-calculation, at least they say they are.

    It can be out of shear incompetence too and/or like I said, I simply don't trust these over-intellectual sites. Plus it would be a bit ironical if we rubbish sightings claims to be calculations-based just because calculations said that a sighting was not possible!!!

    Sighting of the moon is a kifaya and also the duty of the administrations, and bringing this topic up does nothing but cause fitnah for people's Hajj and intentions and can potentially make a mockery and confusion of people's rituals.

    If this is that serious a matter (regarding their sightings being incorrect), our (and anyone else's) grand muftis and qadi's should take a bold stand and publicly issue official fatawa declaring the official local sightings to be null and void asking commonfolk to observe 3Arafah on another day, so that common folk have some confidence in their Hajj rituals and intentions, and more so have the backing of their religious and political leaders, or else this issue should be left alone!

    If we have to tackle this, we either tackle it hard or leave it alone.
     
  5. sunnistudent

    sunnistudent Veteran

    From 1.02 PM, on 5th November 2011 (Friday) to 10.21 AM on 6th November ( Saturday) it was" moonless night", for people on earth.

    From 10.22 AM on 6th November ( Saturday) to 10.21 AM on 7th November ( Sunday) there cannot be any sighting of moon from earth.

    But saudi's announced that 7th November will be taken as First Dhul-Hijjah 1431 AH. Had people seen moon on 6th Novemeber , then 7th would have been 1st Dhul Hijjah 1431. But it was impossible to site /see moon on 6th evening any where from earth, it is clear that this announcement is based on scientific calculation.

    The Bhora sect of Shias[In India] also use the same scientific calculation and they can calculate eid dates for the next 1000 years!

    Since Saudis make all arrangement in advance for thr Hajj Pilgrims based on this pre calculation , they want to stick to it for their ease .
     
  6. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    if it doesn't benefit them, why announce a hajj for the wrong day?
     
  7. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    Saudis are not the best or the trustworthiest or smartest of peoples but I don't trust the information sites like this say either, for various reasons. Personally, I find sites/orgs like these quite similar to the subtly competing commercial "Islamic" finance institutions, and I use "commercial Islamic finance" very deliberately as opposed to "Islamic commercial finance".

    In this instance, a Tuesday or a Wednesday Eid doesn't serve the Saudis any benefit either way.

    Only a personal opinion.
     
  8. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    http://moonsighting.com/1431zhj.html

    as you can see, the saudis have again seen a moon that wasn't there to be seen!

    ---
    the worst thing is, if you scroll to the bottom of that page, those countries doing eid on tuesday, none of them saw the moon - it just says: following saudi or calculation.

     

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