Sh Foudah on Perennialism

Discussion in 'Aqidah/Kalam' started by abu Hasan, Dec 3, 2015.

Draft saved Draft deleted
  1. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    sorry for the sentence. i don't remember what i wanted to write at that time, but i have fixed it now.
  2. Haqbahu

    Haqbahu Veteran

    Then what about the case of deobandis?
  3. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    sh foudeh on iltizam etc. and clarifies that he doesn't do takfir of sayyidi ibn arabi:

    a lot of this is relevant concerning takfir of obaidullah or not; and also about devbandis etc.
    around 15.00 he says that the following precept is invalid: 'he who doubts in the kufr of such a person is himself a kafir.' within the context of what he is saying, it is fine, but it is certainly not an absolutely invalid proposition. surely, qadi iyad and haytami were more knowledgeable and pious than any scholar of today [illa ma sha'Allah] and they said thus concerning those who disrespect the Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam.

    in fact, haytami's al-iylam bi qawatiy al-islam is a famous and oft-referred to resource on the topic of takfir and he says that one who doubts in the kufr of a blasphemer is a kafir himself.

    Allah ta'ala knows best.

    iylam, p112.jpg
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2015
    sunni_92 likes this.
  4. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    personally I have no info about the ahbaash. I am just forwarding what shaykh jameel said. He said the syrian ulema know them best so maybe they're the ones who can tell us more.
  5. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    i was editing my post #40 the same time you were writing your posts. please see it again.
  6. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    regarding tafzil itself he said: a sayyid, being a descendant of sayyiduna 'Ali (raDiyAllahu 'anhu), might love him more that any other sahabi. That is not a problem for one does not have a control over his heart. But his creed must be that sayyiduna Abu Bakr (raDyiAllahu 'anhu) is superior and then sayyiduna 'Umar (raDiyAllahu 'anhu), followed by sayyiduna Uthman (raDiyAllahu 'anhu) and sayyiduna 'Ali (karramAllahu wajhahul kareem). That is the creed of the ahlussunnah and a sayyid is not supposed to believe otherwise.
  7. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

  8. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    the Ahbash have bizarre/shadh concepts on some matters, and politically they do have some alliances and business associations with the shia although i have even heard about them getting into riots and stuff with hezbollah (i may be wrong on this)

    but it is simply not true to call them tafzilis. to the best of my knowledge, they acknowledge the superiority of the Shaykhayn radi Allahu 3anhumaa over Sayyidina Dhil Noorayn and Hazrat Ali radi Allahu 3anhumaa.

    it is unfair to call them tafzilis or shia-leaning, lest proof can be provided from their own sources about what they believe in.
    Last edited: May 24, 2015
    Adam Yahya likes this.
  9. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    sh. jameel is also staunchly against this guy adnan ibrahim. During his visit to India earlier this month, at a private gathering, he criticized him harshly, reportedly saying, "there is another shaytan in jordan who goes by the name of adnan ibrahim. I am informing you about him because you might not be aware about his deviance".

    He also said that the ahbaash, though they have most aqaid in common to the ahlussunnah, are tafzilis and have other shi'i leanings. The ulema of syria have studied them well and have warned the masses against associating with them.


    like every year, his host and guide during this tour to India was mawlana ahmed raza al-kuwari al-shafi'i al-ridawi
  10. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    Habib Ali al Jifri, Shaykh Usama Al Azhary and Ibrahim Adnan in Chechen Republic:

    Is he the same adnan ibrahim that sh. foudah has refuted?

    He starts at around 26:00.

    At 30:00 sh. usama azhari embraces him.
  11. Haqbahu

    Haqbahu Veteran

    I didnt think about that. You're right.
  12. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    i don't understand why you cannot start another thread or multiple threads with topic titles? i renamed the title because all videos until now were on that subject and the suggestion made sense.
    Ghulam Ali and Haqbahu like this.
  13. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    RasoolAllah salAllaho alaihi wa alihi wa sallam has taught and answered all our questions

    subHanAllah, ma sha Allah

    He SalAllaho alaihi wa sallam sighted the very verse from which Habib Ali took the phrase common word to mean something else
  14. Haqbahu

    Haqbahu Veteran

    I (as the topic starter) do not mind the changed title. But I will post different videos and q&a's of Shaykh Foudah in this thread (mostly relating to Aqidah). That does not necessarily have to be a refutation of perennialism.
  15. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    ma sha Allah. can i ask where you got a picture of that letter from? and yes, you're 150% right the common word blasphemy is the exact opposite of the hukm of the verse. it's a negation of the da3wah of the Prophet, 3alaihis salam.
  16. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    it is easy to miss a key point, which is not articulated in sh.foudah's talk. and it is the message of RasulAllah ﷺ to heraclius of rome.


    notice, that RasulAllah ﷺ invited heraclius, the christian to islam and cited the verse of the Qur'an:


    which exposes the fraud of the "common word". the common word, is towards which RasulAllah ﷺ invited the christians; and asked them to become muslims.
    sunni_92 and Wadood like this.
  17. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    A very very important thread that refutes Zaytuna institute [ hamza yusuf and zaid shakir ] and their sidekicks [ abdullah hamid ali, sherman jackson, umar faruq abdullah, yahya rhodus ] on most main points

    Shaykh Foudah is a sincere man who has taught nothing but the truth of Islam, ma sha Allah
    Abu Hamza and Haqbahu like this.
  18. sunni_92

    sunni_92 New Member

    Maasha Allah excellent lecture..and well interpreted by brother AH - you're a gem.

    Classic piece against perennialism - needs to be a 'sticky' this doesn't get lost in new posts!

    Could the Mods edit the title for quick search against perennialism; maybe change the title to 'Sh Foudah - Refutes Perennialism'
    Cos we've all had moments where we've read an excellent article and later not been able to find it cos of the lack of search criteria.
  19. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    very enlightening. the shaykh has refuted perennialism very well. this is a very important piece and should be made widespread.
    Haqbahu likes this.
  20. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator


    i urge all of you to look at this once again, and do not be baffled by this kind of hogwash and flashy speeches. look Allah ta'ala has said:


    notice what Allah ta'ala says next:

    about whom is this being said? about Nabiy SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam.
    who are addressed in these verses? all of mankind. and what is the proof?

    "and those who obey" is absolute and general, all-encompassing.

    and it is not just those bear faith in Allah, rather those who obey Allah and His Messenger.

    adnan ibrahim says: "it is sufficient to acknowledge that sayyiduna Muhammad sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam is a prophet and remain on his religion (i.e., jew or christian). it is not necessary for him to obey any command or deem islamic law binding upon himself."

    this is nonsense. "and those who obey" in the verse mean, those who are bound by the command of the Messenger sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam and defer to his judgement [during his worldly life].


    what does this ayat say? very famous and many scholars have explained it, imam taqiyuddin subki has written a dedicated monograph on this: [ta'azim wa'l minna] fi "la-tu'minunna bihi wa la tanSurunnah". whom is Allah ta'ala telling this. Allah ta'ala is telling this to prophets.

    and they are told: suppose you remain on earth; and suppose i send Muhammad sallALlahu alayhi wa sallam in your time, it is obligatory on you to believe in him and aid him, support him. not just followers of prophets (like jews or christians) but prophets themselves [are bound to follow him].

    those prophets themselves who did not alter the original religion; and they did not sell the verses of Allah for a cheap price; nor did they alter anything in Divine Books, inserting things from their own selves. and such prophets themselves, Allah ta'ala takes an oath from them that they will believe in him and support him.

    so how is it possible for a muslim to say: that belief in the Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam or supporting him in following the Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam [ittiba'] or promulgating his law (shariah). all of this is not necessary. just leave him (non-muslim) as he is, he will attain salvation.

    [sh. foudah implying:] following in the footsteps of the vatican council and reciprocating their move.

    also Allah ta'ala has said refuting christians when they said: "we love Allah":


    notice: not just "believe in me" rather "follow me". and there are many such verses of the Qur'an.


    become jews or christians so that you are guided; tell them "rather we follow the religion of ibrahim, which is free from all corruption; and he [ibrahim] was not a polytheist"

    notice this is followed by:


    if they believe the same as you believe, then they are [rightly] guided. and if they turn away, they are being obstinate.

    these are explicit verses, apart from many hadith that have been reported. among which, i will mention some and not read all of it:

    look at this hadith about the message our Master sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam sent to heraclius (hiraql), the byzantine (roman) emperor. what did RasulAllah write? and this is a letter by RasulAllah and known to be authentic.

    "peace on those who follow guidance. thereafter, i invite you to accept islam. accept it and you will be safe. [aslim, taslam] Allah ta'ala will give you a double reward. and if you turn away, then you will return with the sins of all arianist christians.

    this is what the Prophet ﷺ himself said. unless you say [al-iyadhu billah] the Prophet did not know about his own message.

    the Prophet ﷺ addresses heraclius and orders to believe in him; he tells him you must become muslim - he doesn't tell him 'just acknowledge that i am a Prophet'. and if you don't accept islam, you will take the sins of arianists because you will be reason for their remaining misguided.

    hadith of SaHiH muslim: "by He in whose Power the life of Muhammad rests, none from this nation [ummah] hears of me - whether a jew or a christian, and dies without bearing faith in that [message] which i was sent with, except that he will be in hellfire".

    [sh. saeed:] that is ummah "people" towards whom RasulAllah ﷺ was sent; ummatu'd da'awah not ummah al-istijabah (aH:the nation that accepted his message, which is us, muslims).

    "that which i was sent with" meaning qur'an shariah,

    and this brother [adnan ibrahim] said, including those in hell and they will be taken out of hell. because when they enter hellfire, they will be cleansed and come out pure; and eventually brother iblis and brother firawn all come out clean and will be with sayyiduna Muhammad ﷺ in paradise (al-iyadhu billah). [note: sh.saeed is attacking the implications of adnan ibrahim's statement]

    actually, he did not say they will enter jannah, but that is what is implied. of what he said: "when they are cleansed and purified from their sins, in one single day, he insists that 50,000 years is one single day, they will all come out of fire and Allah ta'ala will annihilate hellfire."

    [sh. saeed asks:] then where will they go? and there is no statement in shariah that anybody will die in the hereafter. so where will they go? will they keep standing at the door of paradise, for example?

    this won't go away. because the next stage will come when these concepts have [been introduced] and knowledge of muslims about their religion will have been all mixed up with misconceptions and will become commonly accepted and they will say: "yes they will enter paradise".

    sure, he did not say it thus explicitly, but whatever he has said leads to that [conclusion].

    when you compare and correlate these issues, it becomes clear and apparent.



    notice in this verse, Allah ta'ala says: "o mankind" not just "o muslims" but "tell them: o mankind, i am verily the Messenger of Allah [sent] to all of you."

    not just Prophet, but a Messenger - that is sent towards - not just that you acknowledge my prophethood, but you believe in my Message.

    these are explicit qur'anic texts. it is not permissible for a muslim to say, "i repeated ijtihad, and it has now dawned upon me, that the belief of previous muslims that these are absolutes are not absolutes [qaTiy].

    and this is deliberate attempt to distort the shariah [taHrif] and delirious rambling.
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2014

Share This Page