shablanji shafiyi on position of qutbaniyyah

Discussion in 'Aqidah/Kalam' started by izz al-Din, Aug 2, 2021.

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  1. izz al-Din

    izz al-Din Well-Known Member

    salam
    could you mention, our Imams, Ala Hadrat, Rahmat Allahi Ta'la alayh, (meaning references), in response to this lack of understanding, from myself, related to these subjects asked about, specificallly Afdhaliyyat and Qutbiyyat?

    salam
    Mufti Shahib, i am greatful for your response
    since there is a distinction between the Ghawth and Qutb, and the Ghawth being higher then the Qutb, that, Sayyidinna alSaddique alAkbar, Radhi Allahu Ta'ala anhu, was the Ghawth, and the other Sabahaba alKiraam, Radhi Allahu Ta'ala anhum, where Qutbs?

    can this be reconciled like this?
    could you give a reference?

    And, also, i have heard, Sayyidinna Salman alKhayr, was the Sultan alAwliya, (meaning greater then a Ghawth of Qutb) after Sayyidinna Abu Bakr AlSiddiue, who proceeded him as Sultan alAwliya, is this an acceptable opinion, and who are the Mutaabir Ulama alKiraam, who held these view?

    can this be reconciled with Afdhaliyyat?
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2021
  2. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    why reconcile the position? it should be rejected as an aberration. as for ghawth and qutub, we will see some more quotes, in sha'ALlah.

    the ijmaa is that sayyiduna abu bakr al-siddiq is the most superior after the prophets. anything else should be reconciled to this position or rejected.

    wa billahi't tawfiq.
     
  3. izz al-Din

    izz al-Din Well-Known Member

    salam
    Mufti Shahib, i am greatful for your response
    since there is a distinction between the Ghawth and Qutb, and the Ghawth being higher then the Qutb, that, Sayyidinna alSaddique alAkbar, Radhi Allahu Ta'ala anhu, was the Ghawth, and the other Sabahaba alKiraam, Radhi Allahu Ta'ala anhum, where Qutbs?

    can this be reconciled like this?
    could you give a reference?

    And, also, i have heard, Sayyidinna Salman alKhayr, was the Sultan alAwliya, (meaning greater then a Ghawth of Qutb) after Sayyidinna Abu Bakr AlSiddiue, who proceeded him as Sultan alAwliya, is this an acceptable opinion, and who are the Mutaabir Ulama alKiraam, who held these view?

    can this be reconciled with Afdhaliyyat?

     
  4. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    he actually said something else, which implies that sayyidah fatimah is greater than even prophets. this is a rafidi belief and outright kufr.

    ---
    as for the below statement by shaykh abu'l mawahib, it should be treated as an aberration. irrespective of the quote, sayyiduna abu bakr al-siddiq is considered as the first deputy (khalifah) of RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam - whether in worldly matters (dhahir) or in spiritual matters (baTin).

    keep reading.
     
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  5. Waqar786

    Waqar786 Veteran

    Maybe this is where Syed Irfan Shah's brother got it from when he said that Sayida Fatima in her spiritual rank is even greater than Mawla Ali. Ironically, he prefaces this by saying (I hope) this does not give birth to a new fitna and then makes the aforementioned statement.
     
  6. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    shykh zarruq in his commentary on hikam, mentions shaykh abu'l mawahib and his incomplete commentary and notes that "his commentary is on the lines of the twittering of philosophers and their complex arguments; Allah knows best what he intended..."

    but in all, sh. zarruq (d. 899 AH) mentions him with respect: "he had a beautiful character, and spoke well about the speech of the community (i.e. the sufis)"

    sh.hikamzarruq, p18.png
     
  7. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    in tabaqat al-sufiyah of munawi, v1 p99:

    tabaqat munawi, v1p99.png


    we end this biography with a strange (or uncommon) point that i say in the sharh muqaddimat al-wusul of shaykh ibrahim al-mawahibi raHimahullah, which he relates from his shaykh, the gnostic abu'l mawahib al-tunisi raDiyAllahu anhu that: 'the first to receive the rank of quTbaniyyah from MuSTafa sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam is fatimah al-zahra'a, raDiyAllahu `anha for the period of her worldly life. then it was transferred to abu bakr, then to umar, then to uthman, then ali, then Hasan - raDiyAllahu `anhum ajma`yin.'

    and thus he has mentioned.

    however, it will be mentioned shortly from the gnostic al-mursi that the first of the spiritual poles (aqTab) absolutely, is Hasan ibn ali raDiyAllahu `anhuma.


    then in the notice on imam abu'l abbas mursi, vol.2 p.23 he says quoting him:

    tabaqat munawi, v2p23.png


    our path is not attributed to the people of the east or the west; rather one by one, it reaches up to Hasan ibn ali and he is the first of the quTub.
     
  8. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    imam nab'hani in his sharaf al-mu'abbad, p67:
    sharafmuabbad, p67.png



    `allamah ibn Sabban said: 'when he (imam Hasan) abdicated the khilafah for the sake of gaining Allah's pleasure, Allah taala restituted it to him and his progeny in the form of spiritual khilafah (al-khilafah al-baTiniyyah) such that the spiritual pole (qutub, i.e. the leader of) awliya'a in every age (after him) will be from the blessed household (of the Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam; ahl al-bayt)

    among those who said that (the qutub) can be also be from other than the ahl al-bayt is shaykh abu'l abbas al-mursi as reported by his student/disciple tajuddin ibn aTa'illah (al-sakandari).

    then,

    1. is the first among the Poles (aqTab) Hasan (ibn `ali) OR

    2. is fatimah al-zahra'a the first to receive this rank (quTbaniyyah) from Mustafa SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam for the period of her life and after her it was transferred to abu bakr, then to umar, then to uthman, then to ali and then to Hasan?

    imam abu'l abbas mursi holds the first opinion, and abu'l mawahib al-tunisi holds the second as it is mentioned in Tabaqat of munawi.

    ----
     
  9. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    nur al-abSar, p.479:


    nurabsar-shablanji, p479.png

    munawi said: i have seen in the commentary 'muqaddimatu'l wusul' of shaykh ibrahim al-mawahibi, where he cites his shaykh, the gnostic abu'l mawahib al-tunisi - raDi'Allahu anhuma - that the first person after Mustafa sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam to receive the rank of qutub was fatimah al-zahra'a until the end of her life - raDi'Allahu anhaa - then it was transferred from her to abu bakr and umar, and then to uthman and then to ali and then to Hasan - raDi'Allahu anhum. (end of citation).

    [shablanji adds:] however, it has been related by the gnostic (abu'l abbas) al-mursi (raDiyAllahu `anhu) that the FIRST among qutub (spiritual pole) absolutely, was Hasan ibn ali - raDiyAllahu `anhuma.


    Allah knows best.

    ====
    note that the opinion of shaykh abu'l mawahib was not cited from him directly; it was his student/disciple, ibrahim al-mawahibi who attributed this quote to him.
     
  10. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    interestingly shablanji refutes the shiyi understanding of "fa aliyyun mawlahu" which we will examine in the other thread. but here we will stick to the problematic quote which reaches abu'l mawahib al-tunisi.

    wa billahi't tawfiq.
     
  11. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    who is this shablanji? he was an egyptian scholar in the 13/14th century. he would be a contemporary of alahazrat.
    little is known of him except in the short introduction in his "nur al-abSar" where it is said that he was born after 1250 AH.

    i spent about two hours browsing the book - which has the biography of RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam, the biographies and manaqib of khulafa rashidin, and then imams of ahl al-bayt and the four imams and then four aqTab (imam rifa'yi, ghawth al-a'azam, ahmad badawi and ibrahim dussuqi). [note: alahazrat would be piqued because he mentions imam rifa'yi as the first qutub and sayyiduna ghawth al-a'azam as the second...dekh udh jaae na iman ka tota teraa..]

    i saw a number of weak narrations and even forgeries - some are refuted, some are cited without any comment. it is not a reliable work, and the author does not appear to be well-known either, especially as he is claimed to have been at al-azhar and lived in cairo.

    case in point: the hadith about RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam having eaten a pear/apple from jannah during his ascension and sayyidah fatimah raDi'Allahu anha being born because of it. it is a forgery and obvious lie but shablanji cites this. he then also mentions a scholar who refuted it who said: sayyidah faTimah raDi'Allahu anha was born long before the miyraj/ascension!

    i also noticed that he mentions sayyiduna mu'awiyah raDi'Allahu `anhu in many places and mentions him with the honorific "raDi'Allahu `anhu". shablanji also quotes from books of shaykh al-akbar and imam sha'arani frequently.

    as of now, and as far as i have seen in my quick browsing, i did not see any evidence of tashayyu. so quoting shablanji for tafdil will either be a lie or a distortion.

    ====
    as for the opinion itself (here is the summary of my research, details in sha'Allah tomorrow):

    this is a shadh opinion that shablanji quotes from the aarif abu'l mawahib al-tunisi.
    imam nab'hani also quotes this via munawi from his tabaqat, attributing it to abu'l mawahib al-tunisi again; but he counters it with the quote from imam abu'l abbas al-mursi that imam Hasan is the first qutub. so this is certainly not munawi's opinion, as he starts his tabaqat with abu bakr al-siddiq; it is just that he has mentioned a 'strange' opinion that he has come across - not endorsing it.

    now imam abu'l abbas al-mursi is the student of imam abu'l Hasan al-shadhili; his standing among ulama and sufiyah is well-known. as for abu'l mawahib muhammad al-tunisi al-shadhili, he is further down the chain (as his demise is in 882 AH) and his opinion cannot outweigh that of imam abu'l abbas al-mursi.

    moreover imam ibn Hajar al-makki refuted him for his opinion on sama'a (music) and scolded him in his kaff al-ra'aa even labelling him as a 'sufi pretender'. in Daw al-lamiy, sakhawi quotes a contemporary (biqa'yi, known for his animosity towards shaykh al-akbar) that he was: "good looking but doing ugly deeds" - referring to his sama'a gathering. however imam abdu'l wahab sha'arani says in his Tabaqat that he was among the good folk. in summary, al-haytami criticised him based on his book on sama'a; and imam sha'arani exonerated him. and we must incline towards imam sha'arani's opinion about the person himself even if we do not agree with his aberrant opinion. moreover, his opinion is open for interpretation and can be explained in a manner be congruent with the ijmaa, that sayyiduna abu bakr is afzal except in some aspects, such as sayyidah fatimah being superior to all companions in the matter of lineage.

    an isolated opinion of a sufi who is criticised by some, does not outweigh the ijmaa of this ummah. especially when it is the opinion of a 9th century figure!

    ----
    in summary: that purported opinion about qutbaniyyah has no standing, and mere mention of that aberrant opinion by a luminary does not give it credence.

    والله أعلم

    PS:
    i am still a student.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2021
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  12. izz al-Din

    izz al-Din Well-Known Member

    salam
    Mufti Shahib, i am greatful, for your previous reply.
    could you explain the correct understanding for the following:
    (and, also, both issues from our Imam, Ala Hadrat, point of view?)

    According to the book:Nur ul-Absar,by Shaykh Shiblanji Shafi'i,the position of Qutbaniyyah was firstly given to Fatimah after the death of the Prophet,it was only after her death that the position was given to Abu Bakr,then Umar,then Uthman,and then Ali,then Hassan and then Hussein,etc."
     

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