Shahid Ali accepts debate challenge

Discussion in 'Bickering' started by Ibrahim, Jan 24, 2022.

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  1. Khanah

    Khanah Well-Known Member

    Are these people actually connected to Shaykh Asrar? Not sure he can be held to account for random follows on social media. If, however, they are his students etc- then there is a major issue which he clearly needs to fix.
     
    Surati likes this.
  2. Ibrahim

    Ibrahim New Member

  3. Ibrahim

    Ibrahim New Member

    There seems to be a bias against Imam Shahid. How can anyone justify these likes, comments by Sh Asrar drivers or heavy supporters.

    Calling Mufti Aslam as Bawa Aslam or bringing up the drug dealer issue once again.

    Sh Asrar circle is really weird. For someone who talks about academia those around him are anything but. People like Allah Ditta Chakswari AKA Ahmad Chakswari were supporting Shahid until he started bringing up issues about Sh Asrar. Now Allah Ditta is putting up photos saying Sh Asrar sat with Shaykh Ahmad Habbal and look at the past of Shahid. Very cult like behaviour

    [​IMG]
     
  4. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    I forgot to write that. That's my hunch too.

    As i mentioned, keep it in English, or if they all wanna sound like expert ulama, then Arabic.

    Arabic is the language of Islam. Urdu is only the language of one group of Muslims. Despite the wealth of books and knowledge in our language, it is NOT the language of Islam any more than chinese or german.

    The only language that can override the local language (english) is Arabic.

    Let them keep it in Arabic if they cant agree on urdu or english.

    Personal opinion: Asrar should tell this baby, 'you win' and let him cry and stomp his feet not getting the attention he wants.
     
    Abdullah Ahmed and Surati like this.
  5. Khanah

    Khanah Well-Known Member

    Shaykh Asrar posted the following (I believe prior to Imam Shahid's recent video) on his facebook:

    We will be going LIVE on all platforms at exactly 7.30pm onwards waiting for our guest. Everything will be live streamed and recorded as there is nothing to hide. Sbc is a masjid where muslims offer their prayers and students study Quran and Hadith. There are no thugs here this is the house of Allah. So do not hide behind thuggery and use this as a scapegoat, this propaganda must stop, it will not hold up as a valid reason if you are a no show. Do not let the tea go cold, be there or be square.
     
  6. Khanah

    Khanah Well-Known Member

    I knew Imam Shahid would not agree to travel to Birmingham to arrange debate conditions. He has used the excuse of thugs etc as expected.

    I would be surprised if this gets arranged in the end- too many things they'll disagree on and then complain it's all the fault of the other, etc and the opponent is hiding.

    I'm assuming Imam Shahid wants the debate in urdu so he can receive the help of his teacher?
     
  7. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    There are many online platforms where they can do it online and have it professionally moderated by neutrals.

    If there's a fee involved, I'm sure anyone from the community can fork out some $10-20 and let these brothers get on with it. (I'm sure Shahid or Asrar too can pay up and are not cheap. The suggestion is so as to keep fully neutral)

    Shahid initially started out with english videos, and now suddenly he thinks he's an expert urdu presenter. "Atwar" doesn't do him any favors either if he thinks he's an expert on Urdu a notch above ghalib.

    Sorry but it's very clear Shahid thinks only he is intelligent and everyone else in the world is a fool. Only a petty person will try to go for this language "advantage" if he knows the other party's Urdu is at a slightly lower level than his. His "smartness" here is open for all to see.

    As for senior ulama not being up to the mark in English, I've been saying for ages that people who dont bother with the language of a place dont deserve to be imams and khatibs in that place. Sorry for my harsh words, but a scholar who is based in the uk and can't communicate in english, in my books he's handicapped and disabled as far as his job of being imam/khatib in uk is concerned. This is a very bitter truth.

    About time we stopped people from running shop in the name of deen. You want to preach in an english speaking land, learn the language.
     
    Surati and Khanah like this.
  8. Qadiri Faqir

    Qadiri Faqir New Member

    Just posted by Mawlana Shahid:


     
  9. Surati

    Surati Well-Known Member

    keep it in a language both are comfortable with using for it to be fair.
     
    Khanah and Aqdas like this.
  10. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Can't agree city? Do it online.

    This debate isn't needed anyway but if they both insist, then no need to travel.

    I'm sure they can both behave online. One on one. No need for 5 on 5.

    Shahid can take 10 minutes to introduce his objections.
    Asrar can take 10 minutes to reply.

    Then keep having 5 minutes each and round it off in 60 mins.

    No interrupting each other. They can get in touch with me as I have a neutral host if they need.

    Ulama will then decide if any of the parties need to do tawbah, etc.

    ---
    Molwis should study tasawwuf and keep the company of pious people.
     
    Khanah likes this.
  11. Ibrahim

    Ibrahim New Member

    Mawlana Shahid has released a new video.

    He said that in the past Shaykh Asrar has made it clear that the one who being challenged has the right to decide the venue and place.

    Shaykh Asrar made this clear with the deos when he chose Birmingham as a venue because he was the one being challenged. The conversation is in the video.

    I think that the reason urdu is being requested is because Sh Asrar doesn't have a command over the language and seems to struggle with fluidity.
     
  12. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    I request brothers to refrain from using impolite language when referring to shahid sab.

    I agree that he has gone overboard and condemn his actions (though I prefer not to comment about his intentions) and yet, those of us who can neither convince one side nor the other, would do better to err on the side of caution and keep our language free of insults and personal jabs.

    As sh. asrar always advises us to be academic in our speech (even when refuting utter deviants like malam or donkeyman aka dawahman (and I resolutely disagree about the latter - for he has used rude language against the Best of Creation (صلى الله عليه وسلم)) let us walk the talk and not put ourselves in the false position of using rough speech against a darsi grad (because he is that, at the very least).

    Irrespective of how the other side behaves - let's not shun the moral high ground.

    wa's salaam
     
    Abdullah Ahmed and shahnawazgm like this.
  13. Paradise Seeker

    Paradise Seeker Active Member

    Even the boxing/ufc issue, In the Lozells Masjid Q&A video he said it was allowed for people like Khabib/Muhammad Ali etc as a form of Jihad, when the opponent insulted their religion. Shaykh Asrar has since clarified boxing/ufc in general is haram.
     
  14. Taftazani

    Taftazani New Member

    Hopefully this gets dealt with soon. Shaykh Asrar has clarified any misconceptions. It is embarrassing for Shahid Ali to drag this out.
     
  15. IslamIsTheTruth

    IslamIsTheTruth Well-Known Member

    Let them have a debate and get it over and done with. This has been dragging on for ages, getting a bit boring now.
     
  16. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

  17. Surati

    Surati Well-Known Member

    That’s not what he wants or he could have done it in this way from the very beginning. After repeated clarifications by Shaykh Asrar he still dares to claim no answer was given.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2022
    AbdalQadir likes this.
  18. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Shahid should write his objections/questions and Asrar can reply in writing. Whatever language Shahid wants. No need for this juvenility.

    They can both stay in their homes.

    ---
    Anyway, Asrar has answered a few things already. Shahid can now tell us if these answers are satisfactory.

    Anything in speech marks are the actual words of Shaykh Asrar.

    Drinking Poison

    "Drinking poison is haram in all four schools.
    The incident of Sayyiduna Khalid Bin Walid (radiyAllahu anhu) when challenged by the Christians of Iraq is not apocryphal. It is validated by the Muhaddith and A'llamah Shaykh Abdullah Siraj alDin. However, the incident is from the the nawadir ahkam fiqhuyya and the general ruling of hurma remains."

    Praying behind deviants

    "Praying behind anyone with bida'h in belief is makruh tahrimi per our Hanafi school, if the bida'h is khafifah. If the bida'h is thaqila, then the prayer is not done as thaqila entails kufr luzumi or iltizami."
     
  19. Surati

    Surati Well-Known Member

    C8875AD0-F974-4D41-B387-9A78C1D76CE7.jpeg
     
    AbdalQadir likes this.
  20. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    100%
     
    Surati and Shadman like this.
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