Shahid Ali continues public spat with Shaykh Asrar

Discussion in 'Refutation' started by AR Ahmed, Jul 31, 2023.

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  1. Surati

    Surati Well-Known Member

    The murtad
    Whilst no one is denying the importance of debating and teaching about sunni-deo conflict, we should ask ourselves if it’s the current utmost priority when we have young people leaving Islam at a rapid rate.

    they are not even muslims, telling them they need to go to a sunni mosque makes no difference to them—they don’t care. They’ll probably look at you and think you’re deluded which will reinforce what they already think about the religion. If you have any experience with seeing someone leave the religion, you’ll understand what I’m saying.

    Get out of your cocoon and actually talk to young people to understand the reality of what’s happening on the ground which is that they couldn’t care less about sunni-deo conflict because they don’t even believe in Islam.

    We should first get them to come back to Islam, learn fard ayn. we can then teach and focus on sunni-deo differences.

    The confused lay person
    If a layperson comes to you and asks should I pray in a deo or sunni mosque, sure tackle it because presumably the person wants to know more. Explain the issues so that they understand why they need to pray in a sunni mosque.

    Redirect them to or teach them Aqida courses too.
    Unbeknown likes this.
  2. Adham12

    Adham12 Active Member

    It wasn’t meant to be reply to your comment.

    With that said, I think our Ullamas should tackle their balance on “real life” issues and also continue with educating the public regarding deviants. I think we definitely do need Ullamas like Shaykh Asrar tackling the issues such as atheism, LG and etc. But at same time, we shouldn’t ignore the issue of deviants and sulh.

    Apologies for quoting your message. I’m replying on a phone and with limited screen space and slow data.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 17, 2021
  3. Abdullah Ahmed

    Abdullah Ahmed Veteran

    im curious to know your logical thought process in coming to this preposterous conclusion from reading my post...please break it down for me...
  4. Adham12

    Adham12 Active Member

    سُــــبْحانَ الله

    let’s save 2 and send thousands the other way.
  5. Sunni Jaag

    Sunni Jaag Active Member

  6. IslamIsTheTruth

    IslamIsTheTruth Well-Known Member

    Again, in the latest video by Sheikh Asrar, you will notice that he uses rather brash language for a fellow Sunni (regardless of the ikhtilaaf).
    This isn't the first time this has happened either.
    Stuff like this only makes the situation worse and leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
    You will notice that his language and mannerisms have already been called out on social media.
    More fuel for the fire.
  7. Abdullah Ahmed

    Abdullah Ahmed Veteran

    Thanks for your wisdom
    و عليكم السلام و رحمة الله و بركاته
  8. Surati

    Surati Well-Known Member

    You’ve missed the point. Keep discussing. Salaam
  9. Abdullah Ahmed

    Abdullah Ahmed Veteran

    Well we would be luckier if we told people to come to Sunni masajid instead of Deobandi 'masajid'...just sayin

    (side question:

    is the West considered Darul-Harb or not?

    If so, is Salah in the masjid wajib?)

    Is youth leaving Islam a reason to stop discussion on other topics of vital importance i.e whether one can or cannot pray behind a deviant?

    What are the spiritual effects of praying behind a deobandi specifically? Especially if that deobandi supports kufri statements?

    Shouldn't Sunni Islam be defended on all fronts as much as possible?

    Or should one pick and choose which fronts to defend based what we feel and leave the rest unguarded?
  10. Surati

    Surati Well-Known Member

    As a side note, in the West, you’d be lucky if people came to any masjid at all. Try going at Fajr at see how many people even bother to pitch up. Even we should ask ourselves how many prayers we actually perform in the masjid.

    Keep going on with these intricate debates when the reality is that our youth are leaving Islam by the day.

    This is like doing the ironing when the house is on fire.
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2021
    Bazdawi and AbdalQadir like this.
  11. Sunni Jaag

    Sunni Jaag Active Member

    Especially when one of the options quoted in the question (Ummah Channel) is Sunni Masjid. On one of the other videos, I'm Sure Shaykh Asrar could easily have recommended A Sunni Scholar in Preston!
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2021
  12. Abdullah Ahmed

    Abdullah Ahmed Veteran

    The issue of Wahabi/deobandi subterfuge is besides the point.

    The primary issue is whether the answer to an explicit question changes based on the level of knowledge of the questioner; i.e does the level of ignorance of the person asking an explicit question regarding whether its okay to pray behind deobandis, really change that answer??

    As to what the laymen do with that answer, now that is now upon them, no? (i.e to further investigate which masajid are sunni and which ones arent etc.)
  13. Juwayni

    Juwayni Veteran


    However, how many institutes by Wahhabis or Deobandis do you see labelled explicitly as such? The whole issue is their subterfuge.
  14. Abdullah Ahmed

    Abdullah Ahmed Veteran

    Yes, perhaps theoretically.

    But when faced with the question of praying behind deviants/deobandis due to not knowing differences, shouldn't one be explicit with one's answer that "avoid anything that has deobandi and or Wahabi and or shia associated with it." If the question explicitly asks about "deobandi masjid," shouldn't the answer be a resounding "NO," rather than a vague answer that accounts for/assumes lack of knowledge on the part of the questioner?
    Bazdawi likes this.
  15. Juwayni

    Juwayni Veteran

    The issue is that theoretically even the scholar might not know till later like in the wujudi case. So the layperson might abstain to ensure he never is in a position where he repeats because he is certain of his own creed but not at the same level of certainty for the person he prays behind because he doesnt obverse what's inside.
    Taftazani likes this.
  16. Abdullah Ahmed

    Abdullah Ahmed Veteran

    So shouldn't one answering also know if the imam is Ahlulbidaa or not, and then inform this layperson whether its okay or not? And whatever the layperson decides to do after that, is his own decision and he is responsible for the consequences?
  17. Abdullah Ahmed

    Abdullah Ahmed Veteran

    So shouldn't the one answering (i.e the Alim) direct this layperson to the correct place where it is okay to pray, and prevent them from where it is not okay to pray? Doesnt that suffice for the job of the Alim up to this point? Thereafter, the layperson is required to spend time learning the differences etc?
  18. Juwayni

    Juwayni Veteran

    This actually raises a deeper question:

    Deos claim to be Maturidi Ahnaf. If an Arab who didn't know about their heresy prayed behind them for 10 years and then realizes, he has to then repeat a decade's worth of prayer.

    In one of his lectures Shaykh Asrar mentioned there was a wujudi passing himself off as a Barelvi. It later came out he had hulūlī beliefs. All those prayers would have to be repeated.

    So how would one answer a layperson who abstains from praying in jamat altogether because of the possibility of the Imam being Ahlul Bidah, whereas if he prays alone he is certain about what he believes?

    Per the reasoning so far, judging on the apparent could still mean you might have to repeat prayers if you find out.

    How would you address a layperson who refuses to attend lectures because he reasons that as long as he never finds about someone's deviance, he doesn't have to repeat as long as they seem sunni on the apparent?
  19. Surati

    Surati Well-Known Member

    So disagreeing with fitna caused by Imam Shahid and pointing it out is now “personality and hero worship”. What an excellent reasoning (!)

    Imam Shahid has said what he wanted to say, now he should move on and actually do some work?

    About returning and “burning” Imam Shahid’s book (as in your initial post)…
    The work is of such poor quality that I would have liked a refund even before he started speaking out and making videos.
    The translation is a rambling mess, with ludicrous grammar and shocking spelling. The work itself is a parade of the flat and predictable.

    Imam Shahid doesn’t seem to realise that part of translating and publishing a book, is understanding how it works. Perhaps the only thing he is good at is sensationalism.
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2021
  20. Ibrahim

    Ibrahim New Member

    Mawlana Ali goes on and states that Shaykh Asrar has made a grave mistake and there is "personality worship and hero worship" which is becoming more apparent in Sh Asrar followers.

    Allah Ditta from Keighley threatened to return Mawlana Shahid's books about deobandi difference just because he spoke out on this issue.


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