should i miss my 3rd jummah salah

Discussion in 'General Topics' started by chisti-raza, Dec 6, 2013.

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  1. chisti-raza

    chisti-raza Veteran

    Thanks brother Noori. I will wait until you do, so that I can study it (under a scholar's guidance of course).
  2. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    it is indeed one of the reasons but not the only reason. ala hazrat has dealt with this issue many times in his fatawa, some of the fatawa if taken alone without considering his other fatawa would make the reader feel that salah behind deobandis/wahabis is batil absolutely, but i feel (and i am nobody, i know) that this is not the case. I have discussed this issue with some ulama, and there were different opinions. praying behind ahl al-bidah is a fiqh issue as well as aqidah-related to some degree for example when imam believes in bid'at mukaffirah. i will inshaAllah present my views in the light of fatawa radawiyyah, and if any of the learned brother himself or with the help of a scholar proves it otherwise, i will certainly take it back and correct myself. but i request that we should take it objectively and in a respected manner. i respect both the opinions as they are from sunni ulama.
  3. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    Wrt to points (1) & (2) in brother Noori's post, I'm wondering (as a layman) what excuse does one have for not knowing the aqeeda of wahabi and that prayer behind them is not valid? Is this an usuli or furu'i issue?

    If the excuse of ignorance is not a valid reason in various other cases, then can it be valid "act of omission" here? When is an act of omission not equal to an act of commission? This is a genuine question rather than a statement or point-of-view.

    I vaguely remember that Allama Kazmi's fatwa also excused people who want to gain the thawab of praying in congregation in Haramayn (given its manifold reward), while knowing the putridity of wahabi belief.
  4. chisti-raza

    chisti-raza Veteran

    This is only to avert fitna. What fitna is there in this case that requires this?
  5. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    it is in his maqalaat and different from this issue. he replied to a question whether prayer of masses praying in harmayn sharifayn are simply batil, and he replied 'no' and explained his reasons. he (rahimahullah) said there are three kinds of people who pray in harmaysharifain

    1) those who don't know who wahabis are and what are their differences with ahlussunah, their prayer will be accpeted inshaAllah as they are unware, like those who are not aware that there is nijasah on their clothes which invalidates prayer

    2) those who know wahabis but they are not aware that prayer behind ahl al-bidah is not permitted, hence their salah will also be accepted inshaAllah, like those who know that their clothes have filth but don't know that this much filth invalidates prayer.

    3) then there are those who know that salah behind ahl al-bidah is not permitted, if they pray knowingly then their salah will not be accepted like the one who knows that there is nijasah on his clothes and this much nijasah invalidates prayer. it is a sin for him to do so.

    however praying jumu'ah behind ahl al-bid'ah when there is no sunni imam available is a different issue, the person already knows the ruling about prayer but is unclear about jumu'ah.

    this thread is open for discussion if other (learned) brothers disagree and can furnish arguments that salah is completely batil behind ahl al-bid'ah.
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2013
  6. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    In situations like this, I was advised by an Imam not to pray jumu'ah in congregation (but to offer zuhr separately). The same ruling applies in Haramayn sharif.

    As Noori pointed out, you can take any of the above 2 routes. I believe there was a short fatwa by Allama Sayyid Kazmi on this issue (i.e. praying behind Wahabis in Haramayn) explaining the wisdom behind each option. You can search sunniport for that fatwa.
  7. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    you can pray jumu'ah and eidain behind ahl al-bid'ah and then have to repeat zuhr prayer as well. prayer is invalid if you have a deobandi or wahabi imam whose kufr is known, else he is a bid'ati and makruh tehrimi to pray behind him. therefore if imam is a bid'ati then offer your 5 prayers alone, and jumu'ah behind him and also repeat zuhr.

    this only applies if you are unable to find any sunni masjid. otherwise, if there is at least one, even at a little far distance that you can reach by driving, then you should go to sunni masjid.

    also, even if you pray jjumu'ah this should be with karaha and to respect jumu'ah prayer, not the bid'ati imam.

    however, there is difference among sunni ulama whether one should pray jumu'ah behind ahl al bid'ah or not, some don't permit at all, and some others do (of course with ka'raha and with repeating zuhr)
  8. chisti-raza

    chisti-raza Veteran

    Wa alaykumu salam brother,

    Pray your salatul zuhr on your own.
  9. saghe_jilani

    saghe_jilani New Member

    As salaamu alaikum wa rehmatullahi wa barakatuhu

    My beloved respected brother this will be my 3rd jummah here in orlando, i m yet to find any sunni masjid, sum bro tell me ther r no sunni masjid in Orlando...

    Should i just pray my zuhr or pray my jummah behind any non sunni Imam?

    What is the ruling for the above according to Hanafi school.

    JazakAllahu Khayrun

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