so-called ashrafi alims at Minhaj e Tahiri Mumbai (thread started by minhaji minion)

Discussion in 'General Topics' started by abu Hasan, Mar 14, 2012.

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  1. muslim 1st Sunni 2nd

    muslim 1st Sunni 2nd Active Member

    This is a good analogy of the state of our community at large our Pirs and Shaykh-al-islams become more important than the religion itself. Most people develop tunnel vision and see or accept no one but their own.

    Hazrat Muhkhtar Shah Saheb has seen with his own eyes the impact that Dr Tahir-ul-Qadri's works in English have had espcecially as a foreginer in USA, convincing the pulbic and Salafis. In my opinion, there is no better reference in English.

    You might not like it but Dr Saheb's works are bringing more and more people to the ideology of Ala Hazrat Rehmatullah Alaih it may not be the Rizvi brand but for sure its the creed of Ala Hazrat.
  2. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran

    Wrong again! maulana Shakir Noori is from the very same group who runs the SDI markaz in Mumbai from Ismail Habib mosque. So no question about supporting TuQ at all. Do you see any reference to TuQ on SDI website?

    As for Zaheeruddin, he follows the Ashrafiya Silsila but fell into the trap of "ulema coucil" - hob-nobbing with Rafzis and Deobandis. I wouldn't be surprised if he did not refute TuQ earlier. But, with the recent new antics of TuQ, the top tier Ashrafiya ulema have already refuted him, including Madani Miyan. Just a matter of time when we hear Zaheeruddin also blasting TuQ.
  3. The Emir

    The Emir Well-Known Member

    The deobandis have spent 50 years trying to 'explain' what their seniors meant when they wrote their insults. What difference has it made??? You'll find minhajis doing the same everywhere instead of accepting the reality. Its what happens when religion for people becomes a cult - their leader becomes more important than the laws of the religion. Its how we have millions following Mirza Qadiani
  4. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    I don't think he was addressing an inter-sect gathering here under whose pretext such lies can be condoned.
  5. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    Say (O dear Prophet Mohammed – peace and blessings be upon him), “O People given the Book(s)! Come towards a word which is common between us and you, that we shall worship no one except Allah, and that we shall not ascribe any partner to Him, and that none of us shall take one another as lords besides Allah”; then if they do not accept say, “Be witness that (only) we are Muslims.” (Aali Imraan: 64)

    TuP reads the above as:

    Come to common terms and based on this we will make a society!

    New equations:

    Believers = Ahl-e-Islam(Muslims) + Ahl-e-Kitab (Non-Muslims)

    Non-believers = All Non-Muslims - Ahl-e-Kitab

    Non-Muslims= Believers + Non-believers

    The disbelieving People of the Book(s) and the polytheists would not have left their religion until the clear proof came to them. (Al-Bayyina)

    Indeed all disbelievers, the People of the Book(s) and the polytheists, are in the fire of hell – they will remain in it for ever; it is they who are the worst among the creation.(Al-Bayyina)

    Thus the actual equations are:

    Non-Believers= All Non-Muslims + Ahl-e-Kitab.

    Believers = Ahl-e-Islam(Muslims) + 0

    Non-Muslims= 0 + Non-believers

    Putting two and two together we have?

    Any names of 'christian freedom fighters' ? (just for my knowledge.)

    And you call this video a 'clarification'?
  6. abu nibras

    abu nibras Staff Member

    Dear Brother,

    I understand that it is painful, it can be extremely emotional for those who have learnt their deen from him or his speeches. I myself used to listen to Dr sahab about 15-17 years ago and was very influenced by his oratory and taking the wahabis headon. This was a time when there were ulema but not many orators of calibre in Hyderabad.

    However we have to be logical about how we look at issues, we cannot excuse one aberration due to another related or unrelated positive. This is the exact logic of the deobandis, show the good work of their elders as an excuse for their mistakes.

    Why you are getting confused might be because some of our folk are using names like padri etc. or are calling him an agent of the yahud and nasarah.

    People have to learn to be objective and address concerns where they lie without name calling, it merely muddies the waters.

    All we are saying is, Prof. Tahir commited a big blunder in his derivation of conclusions in this interfaith matter. Sidi abu Hasan has showed how and where in this book, reading this work, you in sha Allah do not have to rely upon the mere authority of someone calling his deductions wrong.

    The fiqhi ruling is not for you and me to give, and neither has sidi abu Hasan given it, however his aim is to make us understand that it is a serious error and that you must know the ruling about the act itself.

    I moved away from listening to him when I personally started feeling very uncomfortable and I could not ignore or sub-consciously or consciously give the tahdees-e-nimat excuse to self-praise in Dr sahabs talks, hence it is not as difficult for me to look at it objectively.

    I have asked of the direct opinion from Mufti Ziauddin Sahab. The response is usually slow but I will let you know.

    May Allah taala help you and me.
  7. HarunI

    HarunI Banned

    Frankly speaking , I think this issue has been blown out of proportion and is a perfect exmaple of taking things out of context..

    You should understand that TuQ was adressing a mixed faith gathering and he wanted to highlight common things among all religions and he said that common thing among Christains,Jews is belief in One Creator and Divine books

    By this he didnot mean that they are Muslims or are worthy of heaven
    He has clarfied this in his recent banglore speech and you can also check his Dars e Bukhari in which he said that till the time you reply the question about Prophet Muhammad(Peace be upon him) you cannot go to this not enough for you?

    Do you think,an Aalim who is authoritatively challenging Wahabis throughout the world and convincing them about superiority of Prophet Muhammad(Peace be upon him) can call Christians as Jannati who don't even belive in him???
  8. The Emir

    The Emir Well-Known Member


    Rather than write who supports TuQ etc it would be simple if you would clarify your position in terms of what you believe.

    Forget the personalities involved, just answer this: is what happened at Wembley i.e the peace prayer and what TuQ said all according to Islamic Law? Are the present days Jews and Christians 'believers?'
  9. HarunI

    HarunI Banned

    I know the leader of SDI (maulana Shakir Noori) and also the main sponsor of SDI. And I also know their mentor Allama Qamar-uz-Zamaan Aazmi Sahab (Manchester, UK).
    Did I talk in any of my posts about Ameer SDI or MAulana Qamaruzzama..
    I know of SDI Muballighs like Salim bhai who are in charge of the Speaker line and relay TQ speeches in prime time still now....and the relay happens from World's first SDI Markaz i.e. Ismail Habib Mosque....

    And also Maulana Zaheeruddin(Khateeb and Mufassir of Ismail Habib Mosque) is a supporter of Dr. TQ....
  10. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran

    You are not a Mufti - yet you have the audacity to challenge the most erudite & pious leaders of Ahle-Sunnah on this issue! Subhan Allah!

    You are not interested in calling other people Kaafir - but are intent on calling a murtad a Muslim? Defies common sense.
  11. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran


    I know the leader of SDI (maulana Shakir Noori) and also the main sponsor of SDI. And I also know their mentor Allama Qamar-uz-Zamaan Aazmi Sahab (Manchester, UK).

    What you are saying is bunch of lies - just like TuQ.
  12. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran

    Those present with TuQ on stage did not even know that he will go to the extent of open blasphemy. For them it was incumbent to at least abhor the enormity in their hearts - for it might save their Imaan - for this is the least they should have done.

    Your DEMAND for issuing a fatwa against every one, by name, is ridiculous to say the least. Next you will ask the Ulema to identify all those (even non scholars) who were present in the audience and issue a fatwa against all of them. Next, all those who watched the event on TV. Next on Youtube..............

    haven't you read Hussam ul Haramain? Does it take the name of each and every Deobandi and Qadiyani? Or just lists out the blasphemies of the bum who did it? And it states the obvious rule; "whoever doubts in his blasphemy and (eternal) torment, has himself committed blasphemy".

    For those who know, they are answerable! save yourself, friend!
    Ghulam Ali likes this.
  13. chisti-raza

    chisti-raza Veteran

    Brother, you are muddling things. Please step back and re-read all those threads that you are currently on. Don't let your emotions sway you. You are a muslim after all.
  14. HarunI

    HarunI Banned

    You are dodging my question
    I am not a Mufti to issue fatwas and I am not intrested in calling people Kaafir..
    In fact others dodging my question by diverting from the topic...
    My question is Why don't the Ulema you follow ,issue a clear cut Fatwa mentioning NAMES and calling Ulema supporting TQ a Kaafir...Why double standards of calling Awaam who support him as Kaafir and exempting big names fearing a backlash?

    If you are really sincere then go ahead with Takfeer of Peer Amin Ul Hasant because he was also present at the event you mentioned?
    Can you show any video in which he repented from Peace conference?

    Also please include the Ulema of India who are still supporting him.This includes Muftis of Hyderabad like Mufti Ziaullah Naqshbandi who was seen on stage
    few days back....and please don't tell me that he is unaware of the Peace conference.
    Next time on please don't ask me for fatwas by giving me links..ok?
  15. abu nibras

    abu nibras Staff Member

    You are making it difficult on yourself and all, by asking clearance from everybody present, or from all those who once supported him.

    You are dodging my question - I have asked you two times.

    Asking the third time - Did you read the book ? Where do you think the book is wrong ? Please don't throw names at us, we have good opinion of everyone and we think that once this issue is clearly made known to the ulema they will say the same thing that is said in Minhaji Fata Morgana.

    I will delete every message from you till you answer this question.

    Did you read the book ? Where do you think the book is wrong ?
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2012
    Ghulam Ali likes this.
  16. HarunI

    HarunI Banned

    lets not mix things here....we are talking about peace conference and accusatins of shirk...why bring other issues in between this?
  17. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran

    Here it is: he has repented before YOU DEMANDED him to do so....

    Now are we required to approach EACH & EVERY scholar (or even every layman), who PREVIOUSLY supported him (just for the cause of ahle-sunnah or just by 'mistake'), and get them to PUBLICLY REPENT?
  18. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran

    Better for HarunI to go to a madrasah and learn the meaning of 'La ilaha illa Allah'. For this is what dr tahir has attacked.
  19. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran

    You can view his video where he says that Rasulu-Allah 'allowed' the christians to keep worshipping the 'trinity' for 20 days, inside masjid e nabawi. This is accusing the holy prophet of condoning shirk. what worse way could he attack Islam???? This is the link:-

    In response to the objections raised on the polytheistic supplications initiated by Tahir Jhangvi (aka Padri), he makes a mockery of the same by getting someone to ask the question "Is Multi faith Prayer allowed in Islam?"

    The question itself is so stupid, that it could take the questioner out of the fold of Islam.

    Even more horrendous are Dr Tahir's replies to it where he states the following:-

    1. Multi Faith prayer is not only ALLOWED - it is much more than that : It is so good that it is not just a Bidah Hasana but more than that: he goes to say that it is the SUNNAH of the Holy Prophet to do so. Astaghferullah.

    2. He goes on to cite the same Hadeeth of the visit of the Christian delegation of Najran. What a flimsy excuse and what an extra-ordinary conclusion!

    3. We may ask: Did the Holy Prophet ask them to pray to "their God" as Dr Tahir claims?

    4. He further says that the Sahabah sought clarification and the Holy Prophet answered "They are allowed to worship according to their own religion in the holy mosque in Medina". May we have the reference of this quote? (sorry not available, as is the case with so many other lies).

    5. He keeps on saying "according to their own religion" - as if their religions are OK! Are all the Minhajians ready to invite Christians to their homes, with the cross and idols of Syedna Isa (peace be upon him) & Bibi Maryam (may Allah be pleased with her) and ask them to pray "according to their own religion"? Oh I forgot to mention the jews, the hindus, the sikhs, and buddhists - the dear brothers of Minhajis!

    6. We further ask him: did the Holy prophet leave a legacy for us to invite Christians to the mosques and "do their worship according to their own religion", or did he challenge the same delegation to Mubahela? O Allah, send your curse upon the Christians and this liar!

    7. He cleverly leaves out the supplications of the other so called "great" leaders - i.e. the pundits, the sadhus, the jews, the buddhists, and the sikhs etc, whom he himself invited to pray. Do you have the reference of the SUNNAH of the Holy Prophet in these instances also - from your big bag of lies, dr ?

    8. He also doesnot let anyone ask him about the horrific speech that he gave praising the torah, bible, other books of polytheists and his prayer that "may every religion keep its fragrance"

    9. Dr Tahir gives another idiotic statement that this was just a supplication, not worship. So these 2 different things. Astaghferullah! The Hadeeth says exactly the opposite. Supplication is the very essence of worship. Mind you - he again goes back to say "worship" is allowed, not just supplication!
    Ghulam Ali likes this.
  20. Taalib-e-Ilm

    Taalib-e-Ilm Well-Known Member

    Once Huzoor Mufti-e-Azam Hind (radi Allahu anhu) went to Sultan Ganj and was invited by some people to visit the Sajjada Nasheen of Pulwari Shareef whose name was Awn Ahmed. He used to call himself Sayyid, so on hearing that he was Sayyid, hazrat accepted the invitation and decided to go there. As they were about to take Hazrat Janaab Alhaj Munne Mia who lived in Sultanpur mentioned to Hazrat that Awn Ahmed did not accept the Fatawa of Kufr regarding the ulama-e-deoband and that he remained silent in this issue. The moment Hazrat heard this, he read ‘Laa Howla Wa Laa Quw’wata il’la Bil’laahi and Astaghfirullah and refused to go there.

    now, i don't suppose you're going to accuse mufti azam e hind of not respecting sayyids, but then again, who knows what levels you may stoop to.

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