sunni gatherings

Discussion in 'General Topics' started by Aqdas, Dec 29, 2016.

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  1. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    unfortunately, a book is printed with this name and which has a long list starting from abu bakr including junayd and ma'aruf al-karkhi and also imam al-shafiyi who commended celebrating the mawlid.

    a couple of years ago, i purchased a book - collection of mawlids published by maktabah al-hilal/dar al-biHar, beirut lebanon.

    among many mistakes is that the editor in his short biographical notes to each of the authors rolls up two ibn hajars into one!

    niymatu'l kubra is ostentatiously by ibn hajar al-haytami al-asqalani!

    the book is full of weirdness - almost as if someone really wanted to discredit mawlids so they wrote this and published it in the name of ibn hajar al-haytami.

    some biographers list this NAME under al-haytami, and if at all he wrote a book - then certainly this is not the one. [az-zirkily and the appendix of kashf az-zunun]

    in this book there are mistakes, plenty of them. it is obvious that it is written by a non-arab - persian, turkish or probably indian going by the terms used and the awful grammar mistakes made by the truckloads. there are incredible attributions made to saHabah and certainly al-haytami would never have done that being a muHaddith in the first place.

    this book - at least one in my hand is certainly not by al-haytami and if there is truly one by him, i would like to know.

    Allah ta'ala knows best.
  2. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    16. use reputable sources - i am tired of hearing speakers talk about a book, apparently by imam ibn hajar makki called ni'mati'l kubra 'alal 'aalam fi mawlidi sayyidi waladi adam.

    i have seen mawlana abdul hakeem sharaf qadri's refutation of bogus quotes from the khulafa al-rashidin regarding celebrating the mawlid.

    eg. abu bakr radiyAllahu ta'ala anhu said: he who spent a dirham on the mawlid will go to heaven etc. and 'umar radiyAllahu ta'ala anhu said: he who spent on the mawlid is like those who partook in badr and uhud etc.

    these are false quotes. there is no need to quote such nonsense.

    our speakers need to read more.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2009
  3. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    i saw the same advert and it made me :) .

    see, maqalat can serve a dual purpose: a speech when they are read out and they can also be published as articles/booklets.
  4. Abu Fadl

    Abu Fadl Banned

    There is an event taking place with Pir Siddiqui Saab and Pir Niazi Sahib in Sultan Bahu Centre (Birmingham) where they will present maqaalas about aspects of Pir Nasir-ud-Din Shah Sahib's life. I saw the advert on Noor TV.

    Looks like someone was listening to you brother Aqdas.
  5. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    14. it is not absolutely necessary to give time to every scholar/na'at khwan that arrives in a gathering. our stage secretaries feel obliged to allocate 5 minutes to every mawlana/hafiz/qari present.

    those who aren't given time should not hold this against the organisers at all. i feel very happy when someone [whose name is not on the poster] is called up to speak and they decline and give their time to someone else. this shows their sincerity and also allows more time to the guest speakers.

    15. our speakers must invest in sat nav. it is really annoying for them to call for directions 5 times to get to one masjid.
  6. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    this is not related to the above but just to continue the numbering:

    13. more talks need to be on islaaH e mu'aashira and societal ills. even at jalse themselves; there is quite a lot of food wasted when we are given the tabarruk. our speakers must challenge such things.
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2009
  7. We should make sure the speaker/scholar is speaking NOT SCREAMING. Also, no bad words, etc. etc.
  8. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    I already mentioned that earlier. This slogan shouting. It comes under adab at the dars.

    Some gatherings must be specialized others categorized generally.

    nasheed perfection
    language improvement
  9. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    assalamu 'alaykum

    This thread is really surprising to me, are Sunni speakers from the sub-continent this disorganized. Not to go off tangents, or move off topic are basic, really basic speech skills taught to children in high school toastmasters.

    I would certainly not expect this from a scholar. Attend any international conference on science or technology, no one expects the above. These are like essay writing skills thats ones learn in high school.

    How about showing the beauty of Islam to the children and public as was done in some British mosques using posters and booths and pictures of art.
  10. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    this also stops them from going off at tangents and moving off topic all the time.
  11. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    good point. there should be more durus instead of taqrirs. whatever you think of dr. tahir ul qadri; at least he is organised and makes his speeches like a dars and has books to hand with notes.

    this is important.

    11. a speaker must prepare before every speech. if he talks for only 5 mins in front of 100 people; that is 500 cumulative minutes. so, he has taken effectively 500 minutes [over 8 hours] and yet did not prepare for a 5 minute speech.

    i like it when speakers are told to bring their maqalat to read at a conference. i remember the imam ahmad raza conference in bradford in 2001. many of the international speakers bought their papers.

    if you fail to prepare, then prepare to fail.

    it may even be down to the notion that if the public see me with notes, they will think i am a beginner and reliant upon them. this is a really damaging idea.

    preparation is vital for all parties concerned. the stage secretary, the speakers, na'at khwans etc.
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
  12. Abu Fadl

    Abu Fadl Banned

    less screaming and sometimes abusive language on the mic.
  13. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    this is about shakhsiyat parasti:

    10. about professionalism, we must stop this habit of mentioning our pir or the best scholar in the gathering every other sentence.

    it is from good etiquette to not praise someone in their presence. aH said some time ago when we talked about alaHazrat and his quote in subHan al-subbuH that the most sincere form of praise is imitation and the worst is flattery.

    ahlu's sunnah must refrain from this most off-putting practice. i believe this reduces the barakah in the gathering.

    11. grand entrances - we must keep in mind the adab of the masjid at all times. when the mahmaan e khususi enters; we disturb a speech to shout slogans etc.

    this is true disrespect to the person speaking at the time.
  14. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    call it my idiosyncratic inclination but i think speakers should translate the hadith and qur'an for the common public instead of working up fallacies and rhetoric.

    i am sorry to say this but generally speakers [with due respect to their knowledge and rank] come a cropper with their logic. it may look very tasty at the moment, but falls apart when held to test.

    maybe i have been unlucky to hear only the unfortunately-not-logical ones.

    the hadith of the prophet sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam is a mine of wisdom and rich in its description. pick up a book like at-targhib wa't tarhib or riyaD as-Salihin or even jamiy ulum wa'l Hikam and pick half a dozen hadith - translate and explain these. when it comes to sirah, use one of the reputed mawlids and explain it. use shamayil, use shifa, use madarij.

    i sometimes feel annoyed at the scant respect speakers (mainly indo-pak) accord their audience. i mean, not as in 'aap hazraat ki mehrbani', but rather as in 'am-dumbing-down-for-you-morons'.

    my teacher raHimahullah would translate a few hadith and translate a few aayats; he did not have to work very hard if he had to give a speech. this way, he did not have to be repetitive - each friday, he had a couple of new things to say. people used to come from far off because they learnt a new thing each time. apart from this nobody could criticize his speech directly because it was merely translations.

    ask yourselves: how many speeches have you attended and how many SaHiH hadith (on any matter) can you think of? [it is not necessary to be able to narrate it verbatim, but how many approximate translations can you manage]?

    take any random speech of an hour and count how many hadith it contains (SaHiH or otherwise). is this not the duty of scholars to educate the muslim masses and teach them what their Prophet SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam said?

    why reinvent the wheel? particularly, when our elders have already perfected it and materials of such quality and superior worksmanship in our times is rare as red sulphur?

    i would love to sit in any gathering where a speaker will just read out from the book jamiy al-ulum wa'l hikam (the confluence of knowledge and wisdom). it is supposed to be an explanation of merely 50 hadith, but its so beautiful that under each hadith, the author mentions scores of related hadith and sayings.

    once again, i apologize for my presumptuousness, but i wonder why can't our scholars be precise, rigorous (can you cite their reference without looking it up? try it as an exercise) or simple?

    indeed, there might be a few exceptions (shaykh al-yaqubi is one, but he is syrian) and i don't mean to denigrate any of our ulama.

    jam'a kartey ho kyuN raqiboN ko
    ik tamasha huwa gilaa na huwaa
    Aqdas and Shahzaib like this.
  15. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    i agree. they make religion "cool" and interesting and sunni islam is such that knowing it is loving it. youth will be attracted to it if they really know it.

    related to making it interesting is another point.

    8. our speakers must talk 'to' the audience instead of 'at' them. i'm sure many of you will appreciate this point.

    instead of the fiery desi style speech; we must make it more like a dialogue. try to make a speech as if you're having a conversation with someone. it must be appreciated that a lot of the audience are total beginners. some things need to be explained to them very clearly.

    9. our speakers must not show off their knowledge which causes the speech to go over everyone's heads. if i'm not wrong, there is a hadith that says talk to people at their own level. it is tempting to show off one's knowledge and talk about intricate subjects but what use is it to 98% of the audience? it is not impossible to make an 'ilmi speech that is still easy to understand. shaykh sayyid 'irfan shah mash'hadi is a good example of someone who derives pearls for us yet they are easy to grasp.
  16. how about making use of multimedia technology? projectors, powerpoints etc. that would also help the youngsters to be more interested.

    we could learn a lot from the way the fundo christians in the US operate and recruit the young...summer camps, activities for the youth, etc. and all this will help people away from deofilthism and towards pure sufi-sunnism.

    in the UK English is a non plus ultra though. the primus alter pares. it is vital to the survival of ahlus sunnah sufi islam and the retreat of the salafi-deobandi-wahabi-tj-nexus.

    it is a bitter reality that with each successive generation the number of people who can understand urdu/punjabi gets less. in another couple of gens it will become almost zero. so it is a case of learn english or wither and die.
  17. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    carrying on from 7. above, we must realise the importance of english orators. the others have so many of them and though they have little knowledge; because they speak the language of the youth, our youngsters believe them to be great scholars, shaykhs, muftis.

    what a travesty!

    we have the real men of knowledge but they just can't speak english.

    so, what has happened is that being able to speak english is thought to have a direct correlation with knowledge. this is a huge misunderstanding that will only be corrected when we also have 'ulama that are born and bred in the west.
  18. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    7. there must be at least one english speech that lasts at least half the time the main urdu speaker is scheduled to speak. too often we have 1 hr for the mahmaan e khususi [as they are known] but if there is an english talk, it's rushed and perhaps less than 10 minutes. sometimes there are no english speakers at all. how are we to attract the youth if we don't talk their language?
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2009
  19. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    assalamu 'alaykum

    Also, bringing in their small/hyper children, babies, as if they are attending a picnic

    The duroos given by the 'ulama should be categorized.

    Big boards with the word 'adab' written in front should be on either side of the entrance.

    Some strict rules regarding adab should be made in each mosque, generally speaking. For example, the Malaysians and Indonesians, when they come to visit the Habaib in their tens of thousands strong gathering in Surabaya, Yagyakarta, or Kuala Lumpur, everybody knows how to sit in a predefined adab manner. If not you can take it as you would sit in a masjid in adab.

    No, stretching out of legs, arms, yawning, whispering, talking, eating, chewing, scratching, biting nails, cleaning your nose, making excessive fidgiting, looking around here and there, giving salamz, sending your children to give a message to your wife on the other side of the hall. Such things are expected from the newbie attending, but expecting these from regular listeners is not so good.

    If a question does not concern you, don't ask. Ask what concerns you. There must be a questions' moderator. All silly questions will be taken care of outside the dars.

    No reciting of salat wa salam during the dars, to interrupt the teacher, forcing him to stop. No shouting of out of nowhere. No shouting of subhanAllah or mashAllah during duroos. One can do it, with adab in poetry sessions. When the teacher gives the chance, then people are allowed to do it.

    Lastly, adab adab adab adab adab from the audience, students, murids, I cannot stress it more.
  20. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    1. punctuality - we must ensure speakers and na'at khwans arrive on time

    2. we must ensure speakers and na'at khwans end on time - if they are allocated, for example, 30 mins, they must ideally end on 28 mins but at the latest, on 30 mins to let the programme run as planned

    3. fancy introductions and aggrandization of the speaker - when a famous speaker is invited and people are assembled to listen to him, instead of letting the speaker begin, there are introductions...and they run into hours

    4. setting a topic for each speaker - the topic of discussion for the next sermon should be highlighted in advance, so that anyone with particular questions/queries about that specific subject/topic can have them ready at that time.

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