sign of a good faqih and in our case, those who read fiqh from good fuqaha and undertsand it, is to convey a position for what it is, we need to be specific on what is the legal sharai requirement and what is mandub. the iHsan and tasawwuf aspect of rulings needs to be spelled out. clearly.
I didnt know this, interesting. What if all you know is that "gogi's and faraz on coventry road are owned by shia" - now you dont know which type of shia, so the general assumption should be innocent (or muslim) until proven guilty (apostate), so its okay to eat there i think. Also, what if you dont know if the place is christian or otherwise owned - eg the halal kfc's which are popping up these days?
We must avoid the resturants of "secular" Muslims as well. We must avoid the resturants of Muslims who sell alcohol and porn (in a separate section), or who are not religious but dirty minded, foul mouthed people We should eat at only those resturants, where the zikr of our Habeeb SalAllaho 'alayhi wa alihi wa sallam is mentioned and recited. I would rather go to a resturant of the da'wate Islami brothers, Madani brothers, than anyother out there. However, personally, I only eat food cooked at home, by my parents or siblings, or me myself, or my Sunni Madani friends.
Look at it this way please, being Sufis. We would like that ONLY baraka filled sustenance be going inside our body. This is essential for the heart and for sincerity with Allah ta'ala and avoiding what is makruh. The rawafiD curse those who were most beloved to our Habeeb salAllaho 'alayhi wa aalihi wa sallam. When they do zabiha, their hate, curse, and malice, and devils go into that zabiha. When they cook that food, their hate and malice, and devils go into that food. Now ask the question: Would you like such food to go into your body? Answer: No, because there is no guarantee that it is filled with barakah. So, even if the beliefs of the rawafiD do not reach kufr, that they are within Islam, we must still avoid all their resturants and food. Generally, we must avoid the food of ALL ahl al-bid'a, be they wahhabi, rafiDi, deobandi wahhabi, modernist, or any person of fahashi and non-cleanliness. Would any of you like to go and eat at hateful wahhabi places? They have all those shirk/bid'a inserted into their food that they cook with their hands
I thought so. In the absence of any information of exact belief of shia owner/restauranteur, it is better to stick to the maxim "if in doubt, avoid".
aqdas is right. what i said in post number 10 applies to all rulings including zabiha. basically those [non-kitabi's] whose beliefs are patent kufr will be treated like any regular kafirs without a book.
I think it would be okay since the meat is halal. For the slaughter or ahle kitab, if the slaughter is done in the halal way (eg like the jews do it) then its okay, but if its not done like that, then its not halal even if done by ahle kitab. This is my understanding anyway.
Does the same ruling hold for eating at shia-owned restaurant? Is the animal slaughtered by shia not considered halal? Personally I would never consume any animal (product) slaughtered by ahl al-kitab (despite the permissibility granted by some fuqaha). I'm wondering where would shia-owned restaurants qualify. Quite a number of persian and lebanese restaurants are owned by shias.
abu nibras, i asked a scholar your same question some time back. he said the reason is that the kafir category of shias (and people like agha khanis and alevis) are neither muslims, nor are they ahlul kitab with a book and those are the only 2 groups of people we are allowed to marry from. they are just like other kafirs without a book like hindus, sikhs, budhists, athiests etc. he didn't exactly mention apostasy. Allah and His Messenger know best. 'azza wa jall, wa sal Allahu 'alaihi wa sallam
in my first post, i had incorrectly attributed the translation of this fatwa to the wrong source. i have edited the post accordingly.
sidi aN and nj, read pages 28-31 of this book [read the whole book if you can but i'm saying 28-31 contain the answer to your query!]. alaHazrat explains why marrying ahlu'l bid'ah can be worse than marrying a kafir. page 12 also has some answers.
what if the shia girl is like really really pretty and 'fit'?! only joking. not to be taken seriously. after all the serious stuff lately on this forum i am only trying to make people laugh! [a bt like Ali G really. Aaii! Itsa Naiiccee! You like? Yakshamash!] seriously though, sidi aqdas, this argument that today's christians and jews aren't real ahle kitab doesn't seem to hold up too well to historical fact since if u mean they are not unitarians then the christians of huzoor's time were also not unitarians but trinitarians like today's christians. also the jews were even more similar. i dont think u should include those who are nominally xtian or jewish but are really atheists and dont believe in god in this category. if u talk about practising jews and chrisrians of today then they are the same as those of yesteryear just fewer in number--but not THAT fewer--esp, catholics.
this is a worthy discussion. please correct my mistakes. abu nibras, i thought we can only marry those jews and christians that are real ahl al-kitab; which counts today's yahood and naSara out. real ahl al-kitab are those that still follow the real teachings of musa, dawud and 'isa 'alaihimu's salam - hence, there aren't any around today [i don't think]. ghaali shi'a on the other hand have always been the same. a sunni scholar once married a shi'a woman to change her. she changed him! ---------- apart from shar'i rulings, why should/would a sunni marry a shi'a when there are our sunni sisters waiting for husbands? if he marries a shi'a then it is nigh possible that a sunni sister might have to marry a shi'a/wahabi etc.
Aslama o alaykhum.. ALA HAZRAT summed this up so nicely. The shi'as fall in the catergory of GHALI as they are pure GHUSTAKHE and majority based in Iran and Pakistan they are hardcore haters of Sahabis and Hazrat Ayesha (ra). Marrying a SHIA is not the best choice one can make as making them understand SUNNISM first will be the first right step and once they change then marrying them AS IMAAN is first not a WOMAN. Waslam
assalam`alaikum, I had a question about this position about the ghâli ( group (1) among the shia, what makes them worse than a jewish or a christian woman ? i.e. nikah is valid with jewish and christian women, and yet they can have worse beliefs than the shia about Allah, his Prophet and the Quran ? is it that the ruling of not marrying a murtadd woman applies on them, if that is the case then is it okay to apply this on all of the shia women whose crime was to be born in a shia household ? Dont they deserve a rukhsah like the Christian and Jewish women to marry a Sunni Muslim and have a chance to correct their beliefs later. was salam
From http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ala_hazrat/message/488 Question: A sunni married a shi`a woman. Is this nikâh valid or not? please issue a fatwa and have it sent as soon as possible. my personal opinion is that such a nikâh is invalid. those who repudiate the necessities of religion are kâfirs. Hence, it is not permissible for a Muslim to marry a kâfir. Answer: [fatawa riDawiyyah, kitab an-nikah; vol.11/pg345, Lahore edition] Shi`ah fall into three categories: 1. ghâli (ghulât): they repudiate the necessities of religion. for example: a) to believe that qur'ân is incomplete. b) to call it 'book of `uthmân'. c) elevate sayyiduna `ali karram Allâhu wajhah and other imâms above the prophets salawâtAllâhi `alayhim wat taslîm. d) if these imâms are held to be higher than even ONE prophet. e) to allege that Allâh `azza wa jall was regretful after issuing a command and hence remorsefully, changed His earlier ruling f) to allege that Allâh didn't realize the wisdom of a certain ruling (or the lack of it) and when He realized it, He changed the rule. g) to allege that RasûlAllâh SallAllâhu `alayhi wa sallam practised taqiyyah in the course of his tabligh those who hold the above and other such statements that amount to disbelief are kâfirs by ijmâ`a. all dealings with them are similar to those with apostates. it is in fatâwâ DHahîriyyah, fatâwâ hindiyyah, Hadiqatun Nadiyyah: [aHkâmuhum aHkâm al-murtaddîn] they are to be dealt with as apostates. nowadays, most of the rafiDis fall into this category. their scholars and commoners, men and woman all of them seem to profess the aforementioned beliefs, except Allâh willing otherwise. a woman with such beliefs is an apostate. a Muslim cannot marry her, nor a kafir nor an apostate. if a Muslim marries her and has intercourse, it is fornication. and a child born of such a relation is illegal and considered as a bastard. -- 2. tabarrâyi (sabbiyyah) : they don't profess such egregious beliefs but indulge in abusing the SaHâbah. some people among this group reject the khilâfah of the shaykhayn raDiyAllâhu `anhumâ. these people are considered kâfir among the fuqahâ as is evident from khulâSah, hindiyyah etc. *BUT* the correct ruling is that of the mutakallimîn and that is they are bid`yis – subject to hell and dogs of hell – but not kâfirs. to marry a woman who belongs to this group, is valid but is profusely disliked. because it is from the Hadîth 'laa tanâkihûhum' / don't marry the people of bid`ah. it is in SaHîH Hadîth that a man cursed a she-camel. RasûlAllâh SallAllâhu `alayhi wa sallam told them to leave the she-camel since it had become accursed. after this nobody ever touched that she camel (muslim). it should be noted that a she-camel, is in no way liable to be cursed. it doesn't deserve to be cursed. but a tabarrayi rafiDi who curses the shaykhayn is himself cursed by Allâh. "these are the people who are damned by Allâh, and the damnation of the damners upon them" (2:159) hence it is not desirable to live with a woman who is accursed (because of her cursing the shaykhayn). --- 3. tafDîli (tafDîlîyyah): this group revers all the companions; the accept the leadership of all the four Caliphs raDiyAllâhu ta`âlâ `anhum; but just elevate the position of `Ali raDiyAllahu `anhu above all others. these people are nowhere near kufr. however it is bid`ah to do so (consider `Ali higher than others). to marry such a woman is permitted (without any difference among fuqaha), yet it is disliked. if being with her may influence one's opinion of ahlus-sunnah, the dislikeability would increase to the point of prohibitively disliked (makrûh taHrîmi). And Allâh sub-Hânahu wa ta`âlâ knows best.
