Tahir Jhangvi in India

Discussion in 'General Topics' started by abu Hasan, Mar 24, 2012.

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  1. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    as AQ said, these are the first 18 verses of an-najm which tahir presented as an example of his eloquence, erudition, class, regard to the high station of RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam and so forth. by which he implies that he is himself more pious and cognisant of the respect due to Allah ta'ala and His messenger than alahazrat.

    whereas, he is not even aware of the tafsir or the issues surrounding those verses; which shine in alahazrat's translation.

    if i had to simply add an urdu translation to my profile, i can do better than irfan-e-tahiri by employing his method. all i have to do is: take alahazrat's translation. modify a few words here and there or reword it and claim it as my own.

    alahazrat's translation is amazing for its simplicity, its diction, its eloquence, it ability to convey the arabic idiom and its being faithful to the arabic as far as possible. in fact, one of the tools used by my teacher (raHimahullah) to teach me arabic was kanzu'l iman.
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2012
    Ghulam Ali likes this.
  2. The Emir

    The Emir Well-Known Member

    another necessity of faith is to believe jews and christians are kafir

    there is Ijmaa of Ummmat on this and the Aqeeda of Dr. TQ is the same as he has clarified in his speech in Mumbai.Few of his clips were taken out of context to create fitna

    Are you serious???

    Have you not watched his speech where he clearly says they are believers and makes clear the division of believers being the three Abrahamic faiths and non believers as the rest!!

    These people have no shame - they blatantly lie and then come to forums and pretend they are some sort of honest brokers. Making statements and then denying them or trying to explain what was 'actually' meant is an art mastered by the Deobandis - and now by minhajis
  3. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    I think he is comparing tahir's plagiarism with Ala Hazrat's translation.

    On the left is the first 18 verses of Surah Najam copied from Kanzul Iman. On the right is tahir's plagiarized "translation"
  4. kattarsunni

    kattarsunni Veteran

    Sidi AH, what is that attatchment?
  5. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    what you are indulging in is a fallacy of generalisation. that is, some ulama have been hasty in takfir - similarly, they have said kafir to tahir.

    here you make a valid point: that takfir should be made only when it is deserving and just because some people make mistaken takfir, it is not necessary to rule such a person kafir. to illustrate this, you mention:
    sure, there are certain issues with dawate-islami which are mainly operational issues and certain aspects of the tanzeem, which people have criticised. but mawlana ilyas has always been considered as a sunni and anybody who accuses him - al-iyadhu billah - of not being a sunni or blasphemy should provide proof.

    no matter how big the name is, it is their responsibility to provide proof. and as long as they do not have any evidence, such takfir is a mistake. as for criticism of one sunni leader/group of another, so long as it is not in fundamental issues, we don't mind. such differences are a part of life.

    however, with tahir jhangvi there are a few things:

    1. statements of kufr in his clips/speeches
    2. statements of kufr in his books
    3. actions that tantamount to kufr
    4. statements that are clearly against the ijma'a of ahlu's sunnah scholars

    just because group A mistakenly accused dawate-islami of kufr, you cannot wish away tahir's kufriyat. and we will denounce groupA for committing such takfir.

    i have already cited a few statements in his english books which are outright kufriyat. but his actions which are public knowledge now, (and if you had read basic fiqh - though, we don't expect any minhaji to have read it because the headman is himself jaahil who has no knowledge of fiqh. when you follow you a crow, it will lead you to carrion)

    no one can refute a brazen liar. tahir has said on many occasions that christians and jews are not kafirs - this context thing is just to create confusion. you guys are no better

    at any cost, tahir is not a sunni. even though that dajjal claims that he is a student of alahazrat, you can see devbandi books prominently behind him. badhl al-maj'hud and fayD al-bari can be seen directly behind him. as if this is not enough, he has even cited ismayil dihlawi in his books - not for refutation, but for adducing proof.

    you want us to believe his claims and ignore his statements/actions. that may work for monkeys-with-pea-brains, not for people who can read and write.

    you have never seen or heard about real ulama; otherwise you would not be impressed with such a charlatan. indeed, there are people of knowledge who have slipped the path, but this guy is an fraud, through-and-through. no matter how many ijazahs he shows, they remain just that. sanad. many other liars like him in the past have even as short as 3-links or 4-links; would you revere them just because they have a short sanad?

    tahir's ignorance of aqidah is evident in his translation of the qur'an. apart from the plagiarisation, tahir's dishonesty is obvious in the theft of alahazrat's translation, and then obliquely dissing alahazrat. take the 18 verses of surah an-najm which he was gloating in one clip.

    tahir simply takes alahazrat's translation and replaces a few words in places and adds words which are not there in the aayat at all. as if he is translating some poetry - al-iyadhu billah. tahir does not even realise the connotations of the urdu words he uses.

    in his other books, he lifts from key treatises of earlier ulama and carefully omits their names in the references. but what is worse, he goes about claiming that he was the first to do it.

    tahir's actions/statements in wembley are plain kufr. we are warning you for your own sake. if you want to follow tahir and his gang into fire, it is your choice.
    like tahir, you have a big ego. as if the forum's leadership even cares whether you are alive or dead. who are you? and what do we care? we did not invite you to come and post here; you should thank us for allowing you to post here; and we can kick you out any time. we won't lose sleep (i am sure, the other admin is sound asleep at this moment in his place) if you don't do takfeer of tahir. if you want to destroy your iman for the sake of a fraud, it is your choice. regrettable and sad, but it is your life.

    wa billahi't tawfiq.

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    Last edited: Sep 4, 2012
  6. HarunI

    HarunI Banned

    I am not sure why this forum's leadership is after me for the Takfeer of Dr. TQ, but when I give a few big names who are openly supporting him inspite of controversies around him, a cold wave grips them and they go on a backfoot.

    Does shariat give someone a special concession if they are famous and have a lot of Mureeds?

    If they are going to maintain this double standard I don't see any point in continuing this discussion..
  7. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    so, why did you?

    Last edited: Mar 23, 2012
  8. HarunI

    HarunI Banned

    another necessity of faith is to believe jews and christians are kafir

    there is Ijmaa of Ummmat on this and the Aqeeda of Dr. TQ is the same as he has clarified in his speech in Mumbai.Few of his clips were taken out of context to create fitna.And many people have realised it now.

    Almighty Allah asked Prophet(Peace be upon him) to say to the Kuffar:::
    [Kafiroon 109:6] For you is your religion, and for me is mine.
    Does this mean that we want give approval to Kuffar to commit Shirk(MaazAllah)..it doesn't right?

    So,Everything comes down to intention and intention is only known to Almighty Allah ..
    Even Ala HAzrat(ra) stated in Fatwa Razviyyah that just change a of intention can change the ruling for/against someone...
    And you and me are not anyone to utter words against someone or accuse anyone of being Kaafir based on our research...

    The accussation against DI are not Furoohi...Maulana Ilyas(DB) has been accused of Blasphemy by certain Ulema....why you keep calling this differnce as Furoohi?

    Are you willing to open a campaign against DI also?
  9. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    indeed, because believing rasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam to be the last prophet is a necessity of faith and anyone who denies even one necessity of faith commits kufr.

    another necessity of faith is to not invite anyone to commit kufr. because dr. tahir did that, he has gone against a necessity of faith and committed an action of kufr.

    another necessity of faith is to believe jews and christians are kafir. because dr. tahir denied this, he has again committed kufr.

    you must remember, no-one, as you allude, is sinless:
    in light of the above, one must be fair at all times. we are subservient to the shari'ah and not personalities. when the shari'ah and the opinion of a person are divergent, the shari'ah wins every time. the shari'ah can never be wrong but dr. tahir can.

    as for:
    there are some beliefs whose denial is (1) kufr and some whose denial is (2) innovation. there are some issues that are called (3) furu'i [secondary] where both affirmation and negation are allowed. ulama who throw people out of ahlu's sunnah for differences in (3) are wrong. if the difference, however, is on (1) or (2), then it is actually the responsibility of ulama to throw people out of islam and ahlu's sunnah respectively.

    it is the same as you kicking someone out of islam for denying the finality of prophethood.

    i hope i made it clear for you to understand, bro. harun.
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2012
    Ghulam Ali likes this.
  10. HarunI

    HarunI Banned

    Yes he has committed Kufr..no doubt...

    But the position of some Ulema is that they are ready with a Scissor to cut off anyone who disagrees with them on a single issue and throw them out of Ahlus Sunnah...I have posted an example above
  11. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    nothing sinister. just an example to help you understand. so, if you can, please just answer yes or no:

    if someone claiming to be a muslim believes that sayyidina rasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam is not the final prophet, has that person committed kufr or not? would you take him out of ahlu's sunnah and islam or not?
  12. HarunI

    HarunI Banned

    what's the context of this issue here???
  13. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    we live in an age where it seems there is a race amongst ignoramuses to do/say things that take them out of ahlu's sunnah and even out of islam.


    na'udhubillah, if someone claiming to be a muslim believes that sayyidina rasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam is not the final prophet, has that person committed kufr or not? would you take him out of ahlu's sunnah and islam or not?
  14. HarunI

    HarunI Banned

  15. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    So you want all the chapters on kufr and apostasy in the books of mujtahid scholars of all madhhabs, and these are rulings on which there is ijma3 of the sahaba and the mujtahid scholars, which state what keeps a person in Islam and what takes a person out of Islam, based on authentic ahadith and Quranic commandments - just scrapped and deleted, right?

    The rulings of the lighthouses of the ummah obviously bother people like you and cause you an immense heartache. So it's best to just scrap them, right?

    Will you also oppose Sayyidina Abu Bakr who made takfeer of those who denied the zakat?
  16. HarunI

    HarunI Banned

    Tahir Ul Qadri is not a Prophet and he can make mistake..its possible..
    We are just against Takfeer ..
  17. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    was the wembley conference also photoshopped where the murtad said "may every religion keep its fragrance"?
  18. HarunI

    HarunI Banned

  19. Abdul Mustafa 786

    Abdul Mustafa 786 Active Member

    "Shaykh ul Islam Dr Muhammad Tahirul Qadri" founder of Minhajul Quran

  20. ahlus-sunnah

    ahlus-sunnah Veteran

    Shaykh Tahir Young :


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