The Prophet did not fear that his ummah will commit shirk after him

Discussion in 'Hadith' started by faqir, Jan 4, 2007.

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  1. faqir

    faqir Veteran

    as-salamu alaikum sidi abu Hasan

    thank you.

    i too had gathered that, in fact, the hadith may well be referring to the majority of the Ummah as opposed to every single Muslim

    sidi, if you get a chance could you check Ibn Hajar's fath al bari to see if his comments have been relibably transmitted?

    jazakallah khair.
  2. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    this is not relevant in this thread at all. sunni scholars aka barelwis in the subcontinent of our times might act like loose canons, but that is nothing to do with this thread.

    you came up with a foolish analogy and you know it better that you modeled it after anbiya and awliya; some attributes of your 'robot' are unique to the Master, RasulAllah sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam himself (like the knowledge of unseen until the end of time).

    i don't know if you have posted in the wrong thread, but still: instead of answering my objections, you busy yourself with your tittle-tattle of how bad our 'adab' is in your august presence. it is you who oh-so-knowingly talk of logic - where is the logic in your post or retort?

    did you know of a robot - let us call it qasim - who came back from the dead like frankenstein to help his buddies in the coffee-shop? and the waiter in the coffee-shop says: 'the soul might have dispensed in the elements and created a body for itself'

    Allah ta'ala knows best and only He gives guidance to Whom He will.
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    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 4, 2007
  4. abu nibras

    abu nibras Staff Member

    thank you for your note. i apologize as it is YOUR OWN adab you worry about.


    a well known story oft repeated.

    A knowingly or unknowingly disrespects the ambiya
    B stops A
    A says it was not meant to be disrespectful
    B says, it nevertheless is disrespectful, and asks A to take back his words
    A says B is being rude and is showing bad adab
    A never retracts any statement
    B and his followers are repulsed at this disrespect shown towards the ambiya by A

    B and the followers of B call attention to this disrespect and call A and his followers as people with bad adab towards the ambiya and awlia, and do not respect either A or his followers

    A and the followers of A call attention to the disrespect shown towards them, i.e. A and his followers and go around calling B and his followers as people who have bad adab towards A, his followers and everyone else.

  5. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    I felt that was an inappropriate anology by Sidi Naveed.
  6. tazkiyya2003

    tazkiyya2003 Active Member

    Don't you just love the adab of the barelwi ulema?

    Must be the beauty of the tasawuf shining through
  7. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    this cannot refer to the sahaba due to the portion in red.
  8. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    in taz's silly analogy, why does it have to be a robot? can Allah ta'ala not create a being that can do all that taz further elucidates in his example? or is it difficult for Allah ta'ala to give life to that robot?

    going by taz's description, aren't these attributes of RasulAllah sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam according to the ahlu's sunnah wa'l jama'ah?

    and notice that he is very much concerned like ismayil on "their locus of attention will be that..."

    as for the neo-salafi's comment [forwarded by faqir]:

    this hadith is quoted to refute ibn abdu'l wahab's assertion [and ismayil dahlawi's mendacious claim] that the majority of the islamic world [if not entire] had become mushriks and their 'da'awah' was to reinstate tawHid.

    in Sawayiq al-Ilayhiyyah of sulayman ibn `abdal wahhab [the sunni brother of the wahabi founder]:

    among that which proves the falsity of your madh'hab is the [hadith] in the two sahihs [bukhari and muslim] from uqbah ibn amir that RasulAllah sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam rose upon the pulpit and said: 'i do not fear that you shall commit polytheism after me; rather i fear that dunya shall be extended to you and you shall perish after being engrossed in it, just like those before you perished.'

    uqbah said: 'the last i saw the prophet sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam was upon the pulpit..'

    people should learn to form their objections properly before airing them.

    Allah ta'ala knows best.
  9. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    where is the logic in your incoherent post? unless by robot you mean prophets and awliya - is this what you call adab? keeping the tradition of deo-band alive, i presume.

    the robot analogy is twice ugly because it has an undertone of ismayil's shameful belief that prophets are dead and powerless.

    what a moronic post! shows what bad company can do to one's intellect.
  10. tazkiyya2003

    tazkiyya2003 Active Member

    I think its possible to use logic to get around shirk.

    For example, I can say God invented a robot called Haajaat-solver.
    Now the robot is created-so its not God.

    It has phenomenal abilities.
    Heres the specifications.

    A)It can do anything it wishes(God has given it carte blanche)
    It is approachable.SO you don't need to ASK god anymore.Just ask the robot directly.It will help.
    Not shirk-God gave it that power every time
    It knows everything that will happen until time ends so thats all the knowledge that concerns your actions anyway.So you can ask wherever you are.
    It travels faster than the speed of light-so wherever you go its there before you.
    Thats not shirk either..just because it can travel fast.

    It has direct access(given by God) to the rain clouds and all the angels so everything you ask for will be carried out.

    SO for all intents and purposes its so just need to turn to it...

    Eventually people will probably get so engrossed in it anyway,technically it won't be shirk...but their locus of attention will be that...
  11. faqir

    faqir Veteran

    I would like to see a detailed discussion of this issue in English.

    The following is from a pseudo-Salafi [I have not checked the references]

    They say that the hadith cannot be applied wholesale to every single member of the Ummah until the day of Judgement.

    Volume 2, Book 23, Number 428:
    Narrated 'Uqba bin 'Amir:

    One day the Prophet went out and offered the funeral prayers of the martyrs of Uhud and then went up the pulpit and said, "I will pave the way for you as your predecessor and will be a witness on you. By Allah! I see my Fount (Kauthar) just now and I have been given the keys of all the treasures of the earth (or the keys of the earth). By Allah! I am not afraid that you will worship others along with Allah after my death, but I am afraid that you will fight with one another for the worldly things."

    Ibn Hajar says about the meaning of the Prophet's saying (By Allah! I am not afraid that you will worship others along with Allah after my death):

    His saying: (I am not afraid that you will worship others along with Allah after my death) means "you in total or as a whole", because that has occured from some (a few), we seek refuge to Allah.

    Ibn Hajar also said:

    and it occured from what was mentioned in this hadith his report that: he will pave the way for them as their predecessor, and he did; and that his companions won't worship others along with Allah after him and it was that.

    So this shows that the hadith doesn't mean that the whole ummah from after the Prophet's (sallahu alayhi wasallam) death until day of judgment won't do shirk. That is clear from what Ibn Hajar -rahimahu Allah - said.

    Also see this hadith which strengthen Ibn Hajr's explanation :

    "The hour does not begin until tribes from my ummah follow the mushrikeen and until they worship idols, and in my ummah there will be 30 liars, all of them claiming to be a Prophet, and I am the sealer of the Prophets, there is no prophet after me"

    Sunan at-Tirmithi, and he said it is hasan sahih.
  12. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    this should remove any doubt in the mind of anyone who accuses Muslims of "shirk - o - biddat" even those who garb the accusation of shirk under the phrase "wrong beliefs"
  13. abu nibras

    abu nibras Staff Member

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