the stigma of tafzeel

Discussion in 'Bickering' started by chisti-raza, Apr 14, 2010.

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  1. chisti-raza

    chisti-raza Veteran

    oh dear, this will teach, can you really not recognise what i have asked you?
  2. zulfiqar hussain

    zulfiqar hussain New Member

    Oh By the way it's not 600 pages anymore it's ran into 1500 pages and continuing.Shah Sahib has responded to every objection by Abu Hassan Abu Nasr and GF Hadad and co!
  3. zulfiqar hussain

    zulfiqar hussain New Member

    Chisti Raza,Now if I told you the contents of the Book there won't be any fun/Maza left so wait and see.Self proclaimed Shers/Lions of Ahle Sunnat won't have anywhere to hide.Good things come to those who wait.

    Ghulam Sahib actually I'm not even going to waste my breath on you.
  4. Ghulam

    Ghulam Veteran

    shah sahibs 600 page book will create more fitna amongst sunnis but will at least clear up their views on ijma. There will be no hiding then.
  5. chisti-raza

    chisti-raza Veteran

    how may i ask are these 'khawārij' going to be exposed [in the book]?
    and may i ask you to qualify your statements with the definition of these modern day 'khawārij'? and who are they and how [exactly] are they damaging the ahl as-sunnah? oh, and what is the true aqa'id of the ahl as-sunnah that needs protection from these 'khawārij' ? and in your opinion as they are 'khawārij', do you regard them as people who belong to the ahl as-sunnah or are they ahl al-bidah?
  6. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    abu fadl, no one on this forum is blind to the fact that you were the most fervent contributor to this bickering on nasbiport for the past 5 years. You participated totally here. The proof is all here in the archives. Please don't cry crocodile tears.

    What books has Shah Sahib written until now? I have not see any since my days on yanafi.
  7. zulfiqar hussain

    zulfiqar hussain New Member

    Abu Fadl Sahib,Shah Sahib are doing the right thing in writing this book.To expose the Khwaarjis is a must in this day and age.These khwaarjis are hell bent on damaging the Ahle Sunnat Jamaat.I just can't wait for this book to come out.We now have Devils within,Ya Allah (sa) please protect the true Aqeeda of Ahle Sunnat from these devil Khwaarijs Ameen Allah Huma Ameen.
  8. What is so hard about explaining the deviance of the wahhabis? Their anthrpormorphic beliefs are logically impossible and against the tafwid of the salaf and their inheritors, the ash`aris, and their prohibition of tawassul and watering down of taqlid are a bid`ah [sayyi'ah] in terms of history and shari`ah. This should be enough to render their ideas shallow in your mind. You don't need someone to give lecture after lecture on this.
  9. Abu Fadl

    Abu Fadl Banned

    I know there is a lot of talk about Syed Sahib's book but to be honest I would prefer that Shah Sahib did not write a book on this topic. I think Sunnis should not get bogged down in this debate and should instead concentrate on other issues. This is leading to bickering and what we need is unity and for Ulama to work together on major issues.

    I would have preferred if Syed Sahib wrote a book in the shaan of the Holy Prophet (durood and salam upon him) and a defence of Sunni Aqeedah against the wahabis. The lectures which Syed Sahib gave in the 80's and 90's were the best that I heard in defence of our aqeeda and it was a time when wahabi ideas were dominating in much of the country, and we Sunnis were looking for answers. It was through his speeches (and those of some other ulama such as Madni Mian) that gave me answers and strengthed my aqeeda.

    The reason why you see admiration in my posts for Syed Sahib is for specifically due to the way he instilled the love of the Holy Prophet in my heart in an ilmi way. I will always be indebted to him and the other mashaikh for this, otherwise I could have been with the wahabi camp today.

    I was always thinking that Syed Jilani Sahib will write something powerful on this (with his immense knolwedge of usool etc) on a large scale but it seems that this debate is now taking precedence.
  10. chisti-raza

    chisti-raza Veteran

    just as i thought. sorry, but that won't do my dear brother. you made the claim and that is the reason why i asked for the reference. i certainly don't have the time to go from here to there and from there to here...and this was purely a request for a reference and nothing else apart from that.
  11. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    abu fadl please have some shame. You have been our member for such a long time, have some shame please. Do you think you will not answer in front of Allah ta'ala on the day of judgement for decieving others in public. Honest advice.

    I was misinformed that Mufti Akhtar RiDa and Shaykh Hashimi Miyan believe in ijma' qata'iy. However, that does not mean there is no ijma'. Infact there is ijmaa' as reported by Imam al-Bajuri and testified by Imam Taftazani raDyAllahu 'anhu himself, whom the mufaddila like to quote.

    Some of us know what mamduh wrote in his book.

    You yanafi crew will be going on in circles for the next 10 years.
  12. Abu Zar

    Abu Zar Guest

    I am sorry, I cant help you here but can you ask someone(brother aqdas sahib) to show the term being used in the first 1000 years of Islam?
  13. Abu Fadl

    Abu Fadl Banned

    Brother Aqdas, not that I represent what Syed Sahib says but my thinking is that he did believe that there is ijma on HaZrat Abu Bakr being afZal but after researching into the matter he found that there is ikhtilaaf among Sahaba, whilst still sticking to the opinion that HaZrat Abu Bakr is afZal.

    Regarding my own opinion I do not really have one and remain neutral for the moment. I have seen both sides and there are arguments on both sides of whether it is bidah or not. For example, it is clear that there is quite a lot of difference among the Sahaba on who is afzal so the matter is not so simple.

    In one post it was mentioned that the students of haZrat Abdullah Bin Masood said he was the most afZal of all Sahaba, then suddenly Ghulam replies giving the impression that his students are misguided! This is very dangerous.

    I do not want to be a person who passes such verdicts on the Sahaba Kiram, surely their deen was much superior to ours. No person can understand deen better than them and no person will be of purer aqeeda.
  14. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    abu zar, afu fadl etc: you agree with shah sahib, don't you, that tafzeel is bid'ah?
  15. chisti-raza

    chisti-raza Veteran

    may i please request my learned brother to provide me with the exact date [1] and the name of the [later] scholar/scholars who invented this term in al-Hind and which scholars in that era disputed this [term being used]?

    [1] I will settle for the year if you cannot find the date.

    please note: this is only a request for a reference and nothing else.
  16. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    In Afghanistan, we call those who do tafzeel as


    We did not take the word from the indians :lol:
  17. Ghulam

    Ghulam Veteran

    Tafzilis are misguided.
  18. Abu Zar

    Abu Zar Guest

    dhahabi writes, for example, in tazkiratul huffaz that students of hazrat abdullah bin masud considered him as afzal then all other sahaba. the students of Ibn Masud were in turn the teachers of imam azam abu hanifa such as al-qama, aswad etc. so hanafi forefathers were tafzili also but in the direction of ibn masud. here is just one reference:
    وكان تلامذته لا يفضلون عليه أحدا من الصحابة the students of ibn masud did not consider any other sahabi more afzal then him..

  19. Ghulam

    Ghulam Veteran

    His Rulings are not the same as Ala Hadrat. The Ijma issue is one example. I did not disrespect him i just stated a fact many people in uk are aware of.
  20. Assalaamu 'Alaykum

    Brother Ghulam calm down, If Shaah Sahib is a Sunni Aalim and his rulings are in match with Sarkaar A'ala Hazrat Raziallahu Ta'alah 'Anhu , and he is trying to spread Sunniyat, then what is the harm ... Also I think he is a Sayyad Too .. Calm down .. If he is a Sunni, his rulings are correct and he is a Sayyad then we must Respect him ..

    Controversies are associated with every body .. Even with my Blessed Dada Peer Huzoor Taajush Shariah Daamat Barkaatuhumul 'Aaliya controversies are associated ..! Keep ur cool .. And do not be misled !!

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