TuQ in eyes of the layman !

bahot kuch kaha ja sakta hai... Allahu Akbar Kabira

 

jazakallah for the above replies brothers.

please don't think that i'm unnecessarily beating around the bush.

i've graver questions this time.

A Mufti I'm in touch with has told me this:

" 1. To hold the belief that EVERYONE besides muslims are KAFIR is from the
dharuriyaat (essentials) of the deen.

2. In regards to the essentials, ignorance is not an excuse.

3. If anyone says: ' I'm not sure if the christians and jews are from the
kuffar, i'll tell you after consulting a mufti ', he ceases to be a muslim. "

This was in response to a general question put forth by me.

The thing is:
One of the friends i've alluded to above actually said these words:
" Yahud-o-Nasara kafir kahan hai ? woh to Allah ke naam pe zabaah
karte hnai. Unka zabeeha hamare liye halal hai. Woh murti-puja kahan karte
hai? "

I know that brothers have replied to the above. But i'm really worried about their iman. Should i have someone tell them that they should do tajdeed?

(after a couple of rounds of argument they came back with:
Yahood-o-Nasara kafir to hai, lekin unko kafir nahi kehna chaahie, ahl-e-
kitab kehna chaahie . But what about the previous doubts expressed by
them? Currently, the Mufti sahib is away so can't put these ?s to him please help.)

 

actually both are more than 7, as far as i know.

i remember reading a hadith/interpretation that on judgment day Allah will ask a top scholar to recite a part of the Quran and give as many interpretations as possible that he knows and he will give roughly 40, and then Allah will tell him many many more, and the slave shall perform sajdah in awe and say that indeed he is a meager slave whose knowledge is miniscule and he only learnt what he could from Allah's tawfiq

that doesn't take away from what brother noori said though, in regard to the batinies. the ahkam of the shari3ah are all well enumerated by the 4 madhabs of the Ahlus Sunnah and violation of the shari3ah is a violation, and no elaborate justifications will take away the violations.

besides, the zahiri and the batini meanings of the verses of the Quran are never in a conflict! this is something that jahils and pretenders like qardinul tahir won't be able to tell you, and only true masters of both shari3ah and tariqah like Ala Hazrat or Sayyidina Ali Hajweri, rahimahumullah, and others will tell their mureeds. any "hidden meaning" of a verse that clashes with the apparent meaning of the Quran and its message is simply not a valid interpretation and just some idiot's fantasy.

there is no haqeeqah that clashes with the shari3ah - remember this golden rule, for your own benefit, and propagate it to others as well! it is much needed in these times.

 

Yes, if his transgression has not reached to the limit of kufr that is bid'at e mukaffirah, then a gumrah will not remain in perdition forever, don't you remember the hadith which says that RasulAllah will be granted the permission to take out every single person who has even an iota of iman in his heart. and this is the point that this book explains thoroughly and sufficently, and the author makes it clear that it doesn't apply to those who have uttered kufr.

no it is a false accusation, ask for a reference.

sorry to say, but that old man must have lost his mind at this age, it is sad that until at this age his intellect has not matured more than a moron, TQ's kufriyat cannot be justified through what this book is all about. why don't you write to the author of the book and ask a direct question, his email is given in the book.

in deed. those deobandis and wahabis who do not know, and don't defend their blasphemous scholars, how come they can be ruled kafir? and i know no single living scholar who makes such a claim, we ahlussunnah consider only those deobandis as kafir who know, understand, and still defend their 4 akabirs, period, and it has to be known 100%, not a mere doubt, until that time they are considered ahl'ul bid'ah, and still we have to safeguard ourselves from their innovations and keep a distance.

or in other words, we don't consider those people as deobandis who don't know those 4 blasphemers and their kufriyaat, neither do they believe in it, nor they endorse it, they may call themselves deobandis due to their association they have with them, but in ala-hazrat's terms they are not deobandis, they might be deviants depending on the degree of their transgression but they are not murtad or kafir. for example sarfaraz gakkhaDvi was a murtad because he wrote books defending his elders, but a neo-tablighi who just joined them in love of sunnah and has no knowledge of their kufriyat, and calls himself a deobandi, he certainly is not a deoandi in the language of fatwa and thus is not a kafir.

ask for a proof, otherwise there is no point discussing it.

again we need a proof, and see brother, it is not a matter of who and how many have been declared kafir, and then seek justification for tq's kufriyaat. regardless of who someone is, it is only his beliefs, actions and statements which make one within islam, or make him a kafir. just for the sake of argument if we assume that the claim is true then still we need to investigate why mr. x has been declared a kafir, it is not that we build a case to exonerate mr. y from his known kufriyaat.

no need to say that verses can have more meanings than we know or ulama have explained and enumerated, but we are not batinies that we make up our own whimsical interpretations, ulama only accept ta'weel in verses if it doesn't go against the tafsir of Quran itself and sunnah, tq wants to make Quran like bible but he won't succeed.

false accusations. he made some mistakes unknowingly, and ulama corrected him promptly, that is it, nothing more. ulama might have declared some of their actions as innovations/bid'ah but not to the extent that it takes them out of ahlussunnah.

[edited] i reviewed and made few fixes and additions, sorry for my jarring language.

 

One more question:

How true is the claim that some scholars have ruled Mawlana Ilyas Qadri (hafizahullah) to be a kafir based on some sections of his Faizan-e-Sunnat?

I know these questions are childish and petty but I just want to be uterly sure that I am not missing something out there.

I am not at all of the opinion that differences of opinion somehow degrade the status of a particular a'lim or organization.

But I wish to understand what new trends are gaining ground in my city so that I can contribute as much is in my power to promote the ideals of ahlussunnah. I am not being nosy about internal differences just out of curiosity. Infact the scholars i'm in touch with repeatedly emphasize the importance of unity and not discussing controversial matters in public.

One scholar told us that if we visit the Head Office of Jmiat -ulema-e-Hind we'll be astonished to see that though the jamiat has split into two factions, one with the uncle madni and other with nephew madni, both these sit in the SAME office at separate tables ! they're so careful about keeping their rivalries from the masses except what inevitably spills out.

And when he visited a particular sunni hamlet he was shocked to find that the odd 25 houses were home to five rival factions, to the point that one group wouldn't pass close to others' streets !!!

May Allah Almighty remove from our hearts the rancour and intolerance for fellow sunnis. Amen.

 

Also how far is this true?

1) Sayyid Hashmi Mian (hafizahullah) has been declared kafir by 142 scholars?

2) Allamah Shakir Noori has been declared kafir by top-notch sunni scholars ?!

I don't know what this person is playing at. He says there are two Dawat-e-Islamis in Hyderabad, one considers Maulana Ilyas Qadri their leader and the other considers him Kafir !!

I mean I must look really stupid if he thinks he can get away with such fanciful claims. I am not going for another round of discussions with him.

All I wanted to find was how this unsuspecting sunni brother has . . . I don't know. . .

And when I confronted him with the verse " Verily they blaspheme who say Allah is one of three" he was unperturbed. " You know", he said ," each ayah of the Quran has 7 APPARENT meanings and 7 HIDDEN meanings. So it depends on what meaning a scholar has based his verdict. So I respect all those who support TuQ as well as those who oppose him. Its between the scholars. Not for us to discuss"!

Then he says if and only if Sayyid Madani Mian issues a verdict will I follow. And when I asked him to contact him he said that Sayyid sahib is a very busy person, but the fact that the Sayyid brothers of kichhochha are silent on this goes to show there's nothing wrong with Tuq.

Please advise.

Wassalaam.

 

Jazakallah. But unfortunately I can't read my mother-tounge

Are these claims correct:

1) A 'gumrah' can be a 'jannati'.

2) Do not call a 'gumrah' so.

3) It sets a solid case to stop reviling TuQ cause he may already have or in future may, repent. Allegedly, a 74 year old man stopped reviling TuQ and consigned his case to the Almighty after reading this book.

4) As the other 72 sects have been addressed as 'my ummah' it'd be wrong to call Dobbies and wobbies kuffar.

Jazkallah.

 

you can download read it here.

shaykh usaydu'l haq is the great grandson of mawlana fadl ar-rasul badayuni, thusly (if i am not wrong):

imam fazl e rasul badayuni -> shaykh abdu'l qadir taj al-fuHul -> shaykh abdu'l qaDeer -> shaykh abdu'l Hamid -> shaykh usayd al-haq.

 

Assalaamua'laikum.

Someone please enlighten me about the book: "Hadith-e-Iftirak-e-Ummat". Reportedly, it was written by scholars from al-azhar and also has comments by Sayyid Madani Mian (hafizahullah).

Odd claims are being made with reference to this book.

 

But Allah knows you are not a fitna-mongerer. In this age, fitna is already everywhere. You will infact be helping in removing it, not spreading it, thats the truth!

We have to put personal fears aside and fear only Allah's wrath. It is our job to stop evil but with hikma. We have to have sabr, and it will take some time.

Shaykh Asrar Rashid advises that among the common laymen, we should give da'wa with love and kindness and correct them.

Among the fully knowledgeable deviants, then you can rebuke them and go all out with them but again with hikma. Debate would be excellent now that we have Shaykh Abu Hasan Hafizu hu Allah excellent excellent detailed work against Dr Tahir.

 

Assalamualaikum.

May Allah reward Shaykh abu hasan abundantly as befits HIS Grandeur (Azzawajal wa Subhanuwata'la).

But now I am in a dilemma. Should I or should I not press this topic with my friends? I fear I'll be taken for a fitnah-mongerer!

Then there are those neutral people who occasionally refer to the prof. with utter respect and admiration: until now I would try to change the topic or feign deafness. But would this put myself in the dock?

Should I go all out and interrupt everyone who mentions him and tell them of his fiasco?

Please help.

Jazakumullah.

Wassalaam.

 

Assalamua'laikum.

Jazakallah brother Wadood, that was nice and succinct.

One obvious question I've been asking myself: What are non-muslim members doing in the MUSLIM Personal Law Board!

And I found this: Is it Permissible to Marry a Woman From Ahlul Kitaab?

Would like to know the hanafi view point.

Could someone briefly summarize (rhetorical tautology?) the tafsir of atleast a few of the following verses (preferably from tafseer Naeemi):

(2:88, 89, 90, 91, 101, 146,208) (3:52, 61, 64,181) (4:156, 171)
(5:16, 17, 51, 73, 83,) (98:6)(9:30, 31) (10:68) (18:4)

(Got this list from HussamulFurqan.)

Wassalaam.

 

vi) In the Indian Muslim Personal Law Board, there are members of all religions and sects and sunnis also, how come THEY still remain Sunni?

Merely sitting next to deviants for some cause, say national or societal, does not make a Sunni a deviant.

But if a Sunni sits with deviants appealing to them for unity, appealing to them for friendship, and encouraging other Sunnis to sit with the deviants in bonds of friendship, WITHOUT ANY CLEARANCE TO THE DIFFERENCES IN USOOL, downplaying the usool, ignoring shari'at, and without any regard of the responsibility on the shoulders of the Sunni for giving da'wa in accordance with the principle of 'Amr bil ma'ruf wa nahi 'anil munkar. Then that Sunni has betrayed Ahl al Sunnah.

 

it was clear from your posts, will respond to other points soon, a little bit busy.

 

Assalamua'laikum.

Jazakallah for your answers. I need a few more clarifications but before that I await your replies to the remaining points.

Note: PLEASE, ONLY the words in GREEN are mine. I have NOT heard those lectures and these arguments are NOT mine.

Jazakallah.

Wassalaam.

 

i) This lecture is a MUST see, he’s replied to all the allegations and an SDI muballigh concurred w/ me that no scholar can ever refute this lecture.

you didn't link to the video, but anyway, if SDI muballigh cannot refute or doesn't know the fallacies of tq, then it doesn't mean that ulama cannot refute the said lecture, they already have refuted him, but he never replies in writing. you should check with a scholar not with a SDI muballigh, for example does Allamah Shakir Noori holds the same view. you can even find DI members sitting in tq's programs, does that mean that DI supports him?

ii) Jinnah was a Khoja but scores of scholars including Mufti-e-Azam Pakistan had declared that if anyone opposes Jinnah then his Janazah will not be allowed in Pakistan, so how come THEY still remain Sunni?
it is disputed whether he converted or not, i have heard scholars saying that he had converted. secondly, ulama supported Muslims League in the creation of Pakistan not in beliefs of ML leader or members.

iii) The leader of Tehreek -e-Tahffuz-e-Nizam-e-Mustafa (Sallallahua’laihiwasallam) was a Deobandi , some binnauri, and 100s of sunni scholaars worked with him, so how come THEY still remain Sunni?
does tq or his supporters have any proof that during that time sunni shcolars took back or rejected their fatwa that 4 deobandi scholars were kafir? it was a call to unite against qadyaanis, not a call of unity among the sects. even during that time ulama vehemently rejected deobandi beliefs when qadyaanis tried to use qasim nanotivi's statement to prove their stance.

iv) If all Deobandis are kafirs then why do ‘sunnis’ not work to have them declared a religious minority like the qadianis, whether this effort is successful or not is a separate matter, why have they still not tried, how come THEY still remain Sunni?
it is a false accusation, where ulama have said or written that all doebandis are kafir? they only ruled 4 deobandi elders as kafir, other doebandi molvis and deobandi awam are considered innovators until and unless for an individual it is known that he knows kufriyyah statements of those 4 and does not deem it kufr or defends their irreverence. a prominent scholar said to me that we do not do takfir of all other deobandi molvis, we only doubt that they would have become kafir because it is unlikely that they would not know those 4 deobandi elders and their blasphemes, but we cannot do takfir until it is known with authenticity.

so, this issue is different than qadyaanis.

v) I always PRESIDE a gathering where there are deobandis or non-muslims but these mullahs accept memberships of committees headed by Deos, how come THEY still remain Sunni?
this and all the above arguments exhibit ridiculous generalizations, someone's personal act does not make the creed of the whole jama'at's. also, there are lots of factors one should consider for example who invited the scholar, whether it was a pure deobandi program or they were too just invited there, was the scholar aware of the attendees or not, was it a program on deobandi/innovators aqeedah or some other agreed upon issue among all the participants.

if it was a gathering as per the aqeedah of deviants, and the scholar was invited by the innovators with prior knowledge of the proceedings of the event, and the scholar himself agrees with them or takes part in their innovations, then there is no room for that scholar to be considered among sunnis, and it befits to tq more than any other scholar i know.

it is a very ugly reasoning to claim innocent by mentioning that others also have committed the same crime.

how come tq and his followers so gleefully generalize it and make a point for their specific pagan gatherings. is arranging a christmas gathering and respecting christian priests is similar to a seerat conference where scholars from all sects are invited and they praise Prophet Muhammed ŞallAllāhu álayhi wa sallam?


vi) In the Indian Muslim Personal Law Board, there are members of all religions and sects and sunnis also, how come THEY still remain Sunni?
i think tq and his followers should frame this question like this, "in a bus some sunnis are travelling along with some doebandis, ahl hadith, shia, how come they remain sunni sitting next to deviants?

indeed, very strong proofs of tq's being sunnis, deobandis 'arwah-e-thalatha' then would be more authentic proof of their being sunnis, and their blasphemies are just petty differences, right?

 

if they don't agree with him in issues of fiqh and they have their evidence then they remain sunnis, but if they don't agree with him in takfir of the blasphemers then they are not sunnis but rather among those they defend.

 

well, almost all of them are very petty objections, and an outcome of a confused mind, i do not know if those folks really read books. for sure, if this is the comprehension level of the folks then certainly tq will flourish, andhon me kaanaa raaja (among blinds, a one-eyed is a king, or perhaps Amongst calves handicapped cow is wise) suits him very well.

this would be their reply to angles, not a Muslim belief, Muslims don't believe that invoking 'barhama' by Hindus is tawhid, or Christians are believers.

well, if those folks don't consider that Christians and Jews are nonbelievers then their own iman is at risk.

i) They don’t perform Idol-worship
as if only idol worship makes one kafir, nothing else is from the articles of faith.

ii) They only recite Allah’s name at religious events
yes, recite Allah's name and do and have belief in whatever you want, it will have no effect on their iman. give them 'preamble to faith' it answers to all of these stupid objections. if they don't read then they actually want to form a religion out of their own whims, not from Quran and Sunnah.

iii) Nowhere does the Quran call them Kafir
pinnacle of their ignorance, i guess even giving references from Quran will be futile. Aqib Fareed has listed scores of ayaat in his book www.ahlesunnat.biz/hussamulfurqan.pdf

iv) Nikah with them is halal.
v) Their zabiha is halal.
these are ahkaam of fiqh, they are different from other kuffars in these ahkaam, it is not a certificate of their iman. the certificate of their kufr is in other verses of Quran, tell them those verses.

the list is very short, they should also include qadyaanis, 4 deobandi akaabir, baabis, bahaais,. again, they need to read preamble.

until and unless the dispute is not in the articles of faith, and it is only in the branches (furu) then yes, awam can turn a deaf ear, but when it is the issue of iman and kufr then it is not turning a deaf ear but it is in fact becoming a blind.

nevertheless, it is not absolutely true that scholars have always rivalry among them, and also without examining the issue one cannot judge whether the dispute is a personal rivalry or a genuine conflict in the matters of deen.

i also cannot understand their definition of turning a deaf ear, to me it is actually taking a side. they are only denying to listen to the opponents of tq, while so profoundly accepting a heresy from him.

this is the same prejudice that many people have in their hearts for their shayoukh, they only turn deaf ear to their shaykhs' opponents, and never examine the issue being a neutral. indeed the followers (murideen) have a major role in this rivalry among scholars.

also, none of the issues mentioned are related to iman and kufr, and cannot be simply labeled as personal rivalry among scholars, otherwise, these folks should

- quit following a mazhab, because there are hundreds of disputes on fiqh issues among the 4 mazaahib and with such nonsense logic only a moron can reject to follow a mazhab
-turn away from sahaba, because there was a difference of opinion on may fiqh issues among the companion, so a moron can also turn a deaf ear to even the saying of sahabah.

will respond to other points later.

 

'Ala Hazrat Imam Ahmed Rida says:

Woh tu Nihayat Sasta Soda Baich Rahe Hain Jannat Ka
Hum Muflis Kiya Moal Chukayen Apna Haath Hi Khaali Hai

 

no, i don't.