Barelwi Content-Creation & Documentaries http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads/barelwi-content-creation-documentaries.16157/
I haven't seen a comprehensive treatment of the history of this group from sunni scholars in English. In terms of the origins, the takfeer of the ottomans with sources, the massacres etc. The YouTuber bro hajji did a lot of videos on this topic and YQ had the long video on istigatha where he goes through these details and now this DH video. I think we're missing a trick- the historical details are much more eye opening, from anecdotal evidence, then the various debates on taqleed, khatams etc for most people. When you see the letter they wrote to the Muslims of Makkah and what they did to them, how they had to surrender.... These types of evidences have a profound affect on the ordinary sunni who doesn't know any intricacies of theology or fiqh and just want unity... A detailed analysis of their history, from their own sources, by a sunni scholar would leave no doubt as to this group being an enemy of the Muslims and of humanity in general, quite frankly. Especially with the recent upsurge in pro ottoman sentiment amongst ordinary people, it feels like an easy win from a strategic point of view. Once again, it seems we're behind the curve in terms of producing content on relevant topics
I still didnt see after 1 hr 18 mins but These are the time stamps dh mentioned on his telegram channel
this is extremely important - refutations of foreign ideologies should be grounded in Sunni Kalam. Not saying don't use modern data - but it should be done with wisdom and a proper framework. These young da'ees are neem mullah khatra-e-imaan - often personal opinions, hit-and-miss, drama - just win the debate somehow and present yourself as a hero defending Islam. Allah knows best.
bro, you need to list them out. i'm saying generally as well as for this thread, these kind of generic comments don't add value. i've seen only until 1:18:00 so far. it's mainly textual evidences from iaw himself on stuff that we know as matter of factly, but may or may not have known to be said by iaw himself or his closest early aides, in black and white - stuff like only he understands tawhid, the entire Muslim world is apostate, the life property, blood and women of Muslims are halal on them because of shirk, and so on. while he provides these references and ties them up to the way they think and operate (both isis as well as madkhalis), until the point i saw, he didn't mention evidences of their massacres in Taif, Makkah and Madinah. it's good for youngsters not knowing what wahabiism is and provides them references without which the wahabis can dismiss those claims as mere propaganda. it's also good for calling out his buddy zameel. if he has any shame, let him either attest to deny DH's claims on wahabiism. he will make a clown of himself in both cases. it's well understood, he just cashes in on DH's organically grown social media follower base. that's how devs operate in all cases. it's interesting at one point the doco says iaw said one thing at one time, place and audience; and another thing at another time, place and audience. it was as if he was describing the devbandis! within the pakistani context and urdu/punjabi speakers, marhoom Khadim Hussein sahib was a major gem. it's Allah's mashiat He took him away from us. he handled the various fitnahs affecting pakistani islam and muslims very nicely - be it malala's shenanigans, addressing geert wilders, pakistani feminists & liberals, or dealing with the daily rot of standard pakistani politics. i'm sure he's dearly missed by anyone wishing for the affairs of pakistani Muslims to be straightened out if it was congress years, i would have called him a sell out and he probably would be in those dynamics, but given the current nature of the bjp and the problems Muslims are facing since 2014, in the indian context, within the framework and the constraints of the hindu rashtra otherwise known as republic of india, i have to say asaduddin owaisi (assuming he is Sunni, as some people claim) is one guy, there may be more too. those who say he's a token Muslim employed by the bjp to run their errands, need to give hard direct evidence for it not circumstantial - AND provide their alternative to him. i say this as a neutral observer with my limited observation, but nonetheless i have been accused of being a promoter/fanboy i think Asharis like Asrar Rashid should teach people kalam properly to refute other religions. we don't need to read their books to refute them and use wahabi apologetics like the moron zakir naik does/did. they have no choice because they are enemies of common sense and kalam, so they have to read their works.
It’s a bit strange how someone can start a thread on istighatha, even in cases where someone is asking an idol thinking it’s a creation of Allah and that’s seen as fine. No issue. Heavy theological stuff, but apparently okay. But the moment someone posts a video of DH, people get uncomfortable. I’m not defending DH, let me be clear, I watched half the video and the guy is worse than Yasir Qadhi when it comes to istighatha. He basically says it becomes shirk most of the time. Just putting that out there. But if that’s the concern, then why is one thread okay and the other not? Bit of inconsistency, no? If this forum is meant for people with a basic grounding in ilm, then shouldn’t it be mature enough to handle both kinds of content? Now on a genuine note apart from Shaykh Asrar Rashid, who else from among the Sunnis is actually talking about politics in any serious way? Any desi Sunni YouTube channels, books, or even long-form posts where someone’s breaking things down properly? I haven’t found much, maybe I missed it, but I’m genuinely asking. Let me take it further. If someone wants to properly refute Christianity, the Bible, or Hindu scriptures from a solid Sunni standpoint, not from some random guy or mubtadi, what’s available? Any proper Sunni scholar material on this? I’d be genuinely happy if there is. I’d much rather learn from one of ours than from someone dodgy. But if we don’t have that kind of material... does that mean we just leave the whole topic alone? Let others run the show and fill the gap? That doesn’t sit right with me.
Caveat Videntium! Caveat Spectator! Viewer Beware! AQ made the DH video post under the assumption that everyone on this forum is discerning enough when it comes to sifting through wahhabi material. Fair assumption, probably. Objections raised by others on generic principles/grounds are relevant too. I don't intend to watch the video, since it's too long and I find DH insufferable (assuming he is the narrator?). Is there is any new (or lesser known) revelation/information that has been made in the video? From my quick 20s scroll, it seems that the video does introduce contemporary characters/mouth-pieces and their dawah devices. May be useful to those who'd like to be forewarned and fore-armed.
While I see where @AbdalQadir is coming from, I have to agree with @Oowais Qassim Ali. If someone doesn’t already understand the reality and danger of Wahhabism, that itself is proof they lack the grounding to discern truth from falsehood — especially when it’s coming from a deviant speaker. The last thing such a person needs is exposure to someone who might mix truth with poison and mislead them further. On the other hand, if someone is already aware of the poison of Wahhabism, then they have no need to hear it refuted by someone like this in the first place. It’s just a waste of time — time that could be spent reinforcing sound knowledge through authentic Sunni sources. So either way — whether you’re uninformed or already informed — there’s no excuse to be listening to or promoting deviant speakers. All it does is boost their visibility and confuse the algorithm into platforming them even more.
I have no Interest in "blasting" anyone nor was it my intention to "pick up fights" with anonymous accounts online. It was a genuine concern that if sunniport - one of the sole bastions of orthodoxy online, normalizes the repeated dissemination of videos by Misguided Individuals, the Overton window would shift to such an extent that Maslake Raza sirf Naam ka reh jaey. وما علينا الا البلاغ - Whattaboutism without concrete aqli & naqli dalāil is not really a 'refutation' - Yes I believe sunnīs should be politically aware & there are numerous permissible Alternatives besides watching random deviant youtubers. Finally, I do not see any benefit in continuing the discussion. والسلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته
ok, you were looking to start this argument/conversation, so i obliged. yes umoome balwa does not make halal haram or vice versa, the point was that in response to your question, it's not haram in every single case, which you either missed or deliberately concealed to continue picking fights. have you been to secular schools or only madrasas, regardless of which country you were raised? if you've been to school in india, public or private, then you ought to call your parents out for letting hindus or indeed wahabis/devbandis teach you. same with schools in pakistan, you probably would have had a wahabi or devbandi or shia teacher too. just like all newly initiated wahabi lads, pick a fight with them! remember - mutlaqan - worldly or deeni! *yawns* yes, but this isn't a theological lecture preaching this or that viewpoint. it's presenting wahabiism and its evils in a modern political context. again, declare haram all political commentary and watching news too. you missed the rhetorical point by exaggeration, maybe you've newly learnt to debate and are eager to show your skillset. so i take it you declare watching the news on pakistani tv as full fledged haram - even to see whats happening in the world! paradoxically, sadly and ironically, all politics related to Islam in current times is inextricably linked to the evils of wahabism, so despite my outbursts at you, theology IS intertwined with politics in this video - generously so - but on attacking wahabiism! nonetheless, the video is geared politically. yet, somehow, you too have half a point - i do concede. i only watched until 1:18:00 so far - i wish this guy was influenced by Asrar Rashid and this video was put together by a Barelwi - if not for anything else, the level headed manner of speaking calmly against wahabis. it will be interesting to tell his buddy zameel to attest to this video, and then correlate the manhaj and opinions of devbandis on miaw himself. lol anyways - quit whining and provide a solution 1. say it point blank - should we all be apolitical or politically aware and involved? if you say we should be (as in, wajib) apolitical, provide proof and at least move to the side following your own advice. if you say we need to be politically aware and be involved, it comes to the other question 2. will we only listen to or support politicians who are 100 % Barelwi and watch/listen to commentators who are 100% Barelwi? (Sunniyat is a bit more expansive than Barelwiyat although on core zaruriyate Ahle Sunnat it's one and the same; there are Sunnis who can have other points of view than us, both on some aqaid as well as of course fiqh, as well as of course other Sunnis outside of subcon) 3. if you say yes to the above, then either bring those candidates/commentators forward or become one - rather than whining on here! yes, if the context is politics and duniya only. see my posts from the past, i have more respect for tom & jerry than taqi usmani! (again, politics pertaining to Islam is inextricably linked to one or the other form of theology as well as wahabism somewhere or the other, issues like lgbt for example, so whether to agree or disagree, one would still have to listen to him if he spoke on politics, much like how pakistanis need to see what that mawlana 'diesel' says) thanks for catching it out. as i was using the phrase all or nothing, i thought quickly saying "all or nothing Barelwi attitude" could imply generalizing it as the attitude of all Barelwis. that's not the case. so i mentioned "all-Barelwi or nothing-Barelwi" attitude of some people. despite being Barelwi, many people don't have this attitude of seeking out 100% Barelwis in every sphere of life from politics all the way to their barber (don't attack me for straw man again, i'm just driving the point) because they know it's not doable in the real world! i know ulama who are mureeds of Tajush Shariah (rahimahullah) or Mawlana Ilyas (hafizahullah) and relatives of Sadrush Shariah who actually invited ismaili politicians for duniyawi events for various reasons (in fact, i whined to them!) they and i know that real life on ground is not your computer screen, and fiqh and tafaffquh isn't mugging up books and going gung ho on people. kahin ki eenth kahin ka rorha, bhanmati ne rishta jorha! kuch bhi nahin yaar... aap mat dekho. chill karo. idhar aap ka strawman hai ya nahin? who told you it's wajib to watch or we will lose mirpur to modi if you don't? strictly theologically in bookish discussions - no! linking wahabi theology to the geopolitical woes of the Muslim world - here and there - and i say this for all Sunnis of all ethnicities/languages - Arabs, Desis, Turks, Malays etc. this guy's doing just that in this video. of course there are people better than him too - Asrar Rashid is a prime example, and he's a qualified shaykh who's politically very astute, unfortunately he too is an eyesore for some Sunnis. we've all discussed this on this forum many many times. this guy's a youtuber, people bigger than him have done this and have been doing it for ages. Arabs and other ulama being afflicted by both devbandis, as well as of course, ibn taymiyyah ibn taymiyyah is a reality to have afflicted the current Muslim world (my take). Sadrush Shariah himself says (as do other ulama) he was a sleeping fitnah woken up by iaw! yet there are high and mighty ulama whose shoes you and i don't compare to - who have called him Shaykhul Islam. so i try to not run my big mouth on him! long story short - for today's Muslim ummah ibn taymiyyah's like diabetes or hypertension in a 60 yr old unkil. suck it up and manage it! yes i believe i and brother @Unbeknown talked about it on some other thread and i don't remember if i said there or not... but we need to ask a mufti if 3udhr bil jahl applies to DH for saying that 3udhr bil jahl can be applied on shias who hold the aqidah that ghayr nabi can be superior to nabi? the examples he gave in his verbose article were insufficient to prove his point, like saying that some people believe Sayyiduna Khidr 3alaihis salam is wali and yet on the points mentioned in the Quran, he had more knowledge than Sayyiduna Musa 3alaihis salam. feel free to find the thread and comment on it there. lets leave this one to political implications of wahabiism and the political implications of their takfiri manhaj you can blast me as much more as you want, but i believe i've made my point. in all cases, please do provide the solutions to the problems you highlight.
Bandwagon fallacy, everyone engaging in something does not make halāl harām nor vice versa. False analogy; piers Morgan is a political commentator who does not use Quran & Sunnah to deviate people, unlike the other deviants. Imam Rabbani states: The company of a person with deviant beliefs causes more harm than the company of an open disbeliever. (مکتوبات امام ربانی ج ١ مکتوب نمبر ٥٤) About sharing videos & statements of deviants like padri & irfan shah to warn people of their deviancy, it is only permissible if it is accompanied by a thorough refutation, like the uslūb adopted in Bahār e Sharīat & this is not my word but the words of ulama. Noone said anything about kissing hands & taking bay a'h, strawman I wonder where this usūl came from & to which extent will you apply this. "Its halāl for the awām to listen to deviants talk about fiqh & aqīdah as long as he is a political commentator" Will it be permissible to listen to say, Taqī usmani suddenly if he becomes a political commentator or YouTuber? No deviant openly calls you to deviancy, its always sandwiched between "neutral talks" and "merely political" ones آنکھ سے کاجل صَاف چُرا لیں یاں وہ چور بلا کے ہیں Nice strawman with a sprinkle of the Notorious "Barelwi" buzzword. Its an All-sunni or nothing attitude, This is the way of the salaf & specially Ala hazrat and it's neither childish nor boring, the priority is saving the Īmān of gullible people. Dh praises & promotes deobandis & Ibn taymiya as the perfect middleground between wahabism & sunnism. Him refuting wahabism is not a call towards ASWJ but towards a 'taymiyan fusion' of the deen He believes that considering a ghayr Nabi superior over a Nabi can be excused through U'dhr bil jahl & says that istighaathah is shirk. This is the Job of ulama & not your average Zayd, A'mr or Bakr, even then Ala hazrat deemed it impermissible for Ulama to unnecessarily read the works of Misguided Individuals. Aur, konsa bara nuqsaan ho jāraha hay DH ki video Nahin dekhne sey? Do we lack materials refuting wahabism?? I will of course retract if sufficient dalāil are brought but all I've seen is "feelings & vibes" هاتوا برهـٰنكم إن كنتم صـٰدقین Ala hazrat says : The company of disbelievers is like a fire; even the well educated, sensible and adult males destroyed their belief due to their company. The story of 'Imran Bin Hattaan Raqashi is quite famous, as he was a prominent Muhaddis during the time of the Tabi'een, but he مَّعَاذَ اللَّهُ عَزَوَجَلَّ became a Khariji after being in the company of a Khariji woman. In the beginning, he claimed that (after getting married) he would convert her to a Sunni Muslim. He further says: When their company has such an impact (that even a renowned Muhaddis went astray) then how disastrous it would be to make a religious bigot your teacher, since a teacher is a great source of inspiration, So giving your children into the custody of disbelieving women (or men) would be done only by the one who (himself) does not have any concern with regards to his religion nor does he care if his children deviate from true Islamic beliefs and teachings. (Fatawa Razawiyyah, vol. 23, pp. 692) And this is about taking deviants as one's teachers mutlaqan, whether worldly or deeni.
no otherwise everyone on this forum would need to go to jail for sharing videos of piers morgan or barkha dutt or iran shah or tahir padri or anyone. dh is a youtuber and a political commentator on the politics within/relating to the Muslim world - no one asked you to make him your peer o murshid and kiss his hands! as a commentator on politics involving Muslims, you don't have to take his aqidah wherever it comes to surface (if it does), as much as you don't have to take piers morgan's aqidah on liberal democracy whenever it comes to surface. this all-Barelwi or nothing-Barelwi attitude by some folks is quite childish and boring, most importantly, utterly impractical and counter-productive in matters where politics or dunyawi affairs concerning Muslims is involved! in this specific case, especially so given that the guy has been promoting it as an anti-wahabi doco! yes, if he does commit open riddah/blasphemy or call for it, we will call it out. and for the record, this video was just released this morning (22/5/25) eastern time, and i haven't seen it yet. i'll probably see it in bits and pieces to finish off the 3.5 hrs
Isn't it impermissible to share videos of deviants like Dh & Ali dawah etc regardless of the content?
