what are clear cut reasons for takfir of dr.tahir

Discussion in 'Hanafi Fiqh' started by Unbeknown, Oct 7, 2014.

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  1. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    oh, i missed this one. apologies.
    no.


    ---------------
    now my question:
    the third time you broke your promise. you did not want to discuss praying in mosques, but still your questions are about it.

    if suppose, a head of a muslim state announces that christians of my kingdom are allowed to bring their crosses in Muslim masjids, and chant that yisa alayhi's salam is the son of god (al-iyadhubillah); that by doing so, they have not gone anywhere - they have come to their own homes. and proclaims that all christians are believers alongside muslims and form a single ummah and christians should not be considered as disbelievers.

    will we issue a fatwa of kufr on him for not considering ahl-e-kitab as kafir or not?
     
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  2. The Emir

    The Emir Well-Known Member

    yes harun is a jahil mutlaq

    I think where he is heading with his defence of blatant kufr is more dangerous than jihalat!!
     
  3. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    yes harun is a jahil mutlaq:

    harun i suggest you read the various tafasir of this verse:

    وَالَّذِينَ اتَّخَذُوا مَسْجِداً ضِرَاراً وَكُفْراً وَتَفْرِيقاً بَيْنَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَإِرْصَادَاً لِمَنْ حَارَبَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ مِنْ قَبْلُ وَلَيَحْلِفُنَّ إِنْ

    أَرَدْنَا إِلّا الْحُسْنَى وَاللَّهُ يَشْهَدُ إِنَّهُمْ لَكَاذِبُونَ

    and this one

    وَأَنَّ الْمَسَاجِدَ لِلَّهِ فَلا تَدْعُو مَعَ اللَّهِ أَحَداً
    and these ones:

    فِي بُيُوتٍ أَذِنَ اللَّهُ أَنْ تُرْفَعَ وَيُذْكَرَ فِيهَا اسْمُهُ يُسَبِّحُ لَهُ فِيهَا بِالْغُدُوِّ وَالْآصَالِ ، رِجَالٌ لا تُلْهِيهِمْ تِجَارَةٌ وَلا بَيْعٌ عَنْ ذِكْرِ

    اللَّهِ وَإِقَامِ الصَّلاةِ وَإِيتَاءِ الزَّكَاةِ يَخَافُونَ يَوْماً تَتَقَلَّبُ فِيهِ الْقُلُوبُ وَالْأَبْصَارُ ، لِيَجْزِيَهُمُ اللَّهُ أَحْسَنَ مَا عَمِلُوا

    وَيَزِيدَهُمْ مِنْ فَضْلِهِ وَاللَّهُ يَرْزُقُ مَنْ يَشَاءُ بِغَيْرِ حِسَابٍ

    and finally this one and the fuqahaa's extractions from it:

    يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا إِنَّمَا الْمُشْرِكُونَ نَجَسٌ فَلا يَقْرَبُوا الْمَسْجِدَ الْحَرَامَ بَعْدَ عَامِهِمْ هَذَا وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ عَيْلَةً فَسَوْفَ يُغْنِيكُمُ اللَّهُ

    مِنْ فَضْلِهِ إِنْ شَاءَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلِيمٌ حَكِيمٌ
    ----------

    rather than making your jahil mutlaq qiyas on permission of dhimmis to worship in a muslim state over permission of kafirs to worship in a mosque

    ----------

    speaking of bloody dhimmis, see the primary fiqh manuals of ALL 4 madhhabs of the ahlus sunnah and see what are the rulings on a person who has honored dhimmis by activities such as those done by padri and his jahil mutlaq crew (hint: all four madhhabs call it irtidad)
     
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  4. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    how come you decide to become an internet mufti on some matters and not on which you cannot answer?

    answers to all your confusion can be found in MFM. i can understand your condescension and your refusal to accept the words of an anonymous nobody. but it is more of a collection of quotes from great ulama respected worldwide. all those quotes are referenced - anybody can look them up. now, if my quotes are out of context, go ahead and critique them. show the proper context. if these are mistranslated, correct those passages.

    why can't you read MFM, at least once, even if it is with disdain? after all, you are the people (as it appears from your postings and minhaji defence) who want to have an understanding with yahud/nasara by going to them and calling them.

    is it that difficult to look into a book written by a muslim? or are you afraid that the book will cast a spell on you?

    ----
    your questions are a product of qiyas-e-fasid. let us forget our disagreement for a moment, and talk as two students (as you too claim to be a student). aren't these questions loaded ones? i mean, if you are a serious, will you peek in a book, find a hadith or event and run away with your own qiyas? is there a method or not to follow? do you accept usul or not?

    see it is difficult to talk to a person who takes any position that suits him. in spite of our anonymous handles, all of us declare of positions upfront. why can't you do that? are you afraid of stating your true belief?

    i understand that you are not a mufti and a totally-helpless-blank student, but at least you may know the following basics:

    1. do you believe in abrogation? (nasikh-mansukh)

    2. if there are two hadith that (apparently) contradict - one that was said in previous years of hijrah and one that is from later years of hijrah, which one do you think might be the abrogator?

    3. sayyiduna `umar was a ruler. can any of his actions - raDiyallahu `anhu - be considered as a model for us? did he understand these issues better or prof.tahir knows better?

    4. can the opinions of imam a'azam, imam abu yusuf and imam muhammad be considered authority?

    --------
    in principle, i should answer your questions only when you have declared your persuasion. who knows you may turn out to be an anti-hadith
    actually, many acts and words of kufr. but let us keep this aside for a moment.
    but you are mixing up two things. the previous one is a different issue; worshipping of christians in a mosque is another old story. both are separate issues.

    yes, they are.

    yes and yes with some riders.

    no.

    no, it doesn't.

    --------------------------------------------------------
    see, in spite of those loaded questions, i have given you straight answers. now you tell me,

    can you tell me if the Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam or his SaHabah invited christians to worship according to their own tradition or not?

    was jiziyah imposed upon them or not? is jizyah proven by the naSS of the qur'an? what are the maqaSid of jizyah - is it just to accumulate wealth? were the ahl e kitab considered as believers at any point of time? did any sahabi or tabiyi or their followers ever invite christians for dinner and encourage them to proclaim what they worship? what is the status of the hadith: "expel jews and christians from the jaziratu'l arab"?

    does any book of hadith or fiqh include rulings on ahl al-kitab? if so, which book do you trust?

    is encouraging a person to continue to be in the state of kufr, being razi with kufr or not?

    ahl al-kitab are allowed to drink wine and eat pork in muslim countries; but is it permissible for a muslim to purchase wine and pork, lay it on his table, invite christians and ask them to enjoy the wine and bacon (you have come to your own house, please do not hesitate) an islamic act? even if the host does not drink wine or eat pork himself?

    that is twice you have broken your promise. you asked us not to discuss praying in mosques, but you still bring this issue. as has been demonstrated, you want us to follow your rules, but you can be as free as you wish.
    are you implying that wahabis with mujassimah beliefs are kafir?
     
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  5. The Emir

    The Emir Well-Known Member

    @Harun

    You need help
     
  6. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    it is really strange that our brothers are still responding to this moron.
     
  7. HarunI

    HarunI Banned

    I agree that there were some Ghayr Sharee things that happened in the Multi Faith events araanged in the mosque.

    But,lets keep the worshipping of Christians in Mosque aside for a moment.

    Can you tell me if Christians are allowed to worship in Muslim countries or not?

    At the time of Prophet(Peace be upon him) and Khulafa(Radiyallahu Anhum) were christians allowed to worship according to their own religion or not under Muslim rule?

    Does giving freedom of worship to Non Muslims or allowing Christians to stay in Muslim countries and worship according to their customs ammount to being Razi on Kufr of Christians or their polytheism?(M'aazAllah)..

    Wahabis have Mujassima beliefs and they come and pray in Sunni Mosques.
    Does it mean that we are Razi on their Kufr?

    If suppose a Head of Muslim state announces that people of my kingdom have freedom to worship according to their religion and Dhimmi Non Muslims have to pay a tax if they want to stay in the Islamic State.

    Will we issue a fatwa of Kufr on him for permitting Shirk ?
     
  8. The Emir

    The Emir Well-Known Member

    http://www.interfaithrelations.com/...ation-prays-at-Minhaj-ul-Quran-mosque-Masjid/

    Look at the photo in the link above where Christians are worshipping in a Mosque. They believe Jesus to be the son of God which is blatant kufr in that no Muslim believes that and neither is there any ambigiuty or contention among scholars relating to this and which every ordinary Muslim also regards as shirk and kufr of the worst kind. However TuQ and his suporters allow them to worship in a Mosque and openly commit shirk in a Mosque - and people like Harun and others come here to defend this.

    Why does anyone need any fatwa from any Mufti to realise that shirk and kufr is being permitted in a Mosque? Does it only become kufr when a Mufti passes a fatwa???
     
  9. chisti-raza

    chisti-raza Veteran

    Note: This is not a fatwa but rather a statement by the respected Shaykh concerning TuQ and his beliefs.

    here is what is actually written:

    now, where did Hazrat make takfir over this?
     
  10. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    Actually that is very misleading and I don't know what was the original or translation communicated to Shaykh Akhtar Raza Sahab.

    But just saying "open to jews and christians" can even imply a simple entry, which makes it a fiqh issue. (How many tourists enter Jamah Masjid in Delhi and so on!)

    What tahir did was he told christians (and jews?) that his masjid is open to them to pray according to their traditions!

    The difference is like chalk and cheese!
     
  11. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    did mawlana akhtar raza do takfir for this? where?
     
  12. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    just asking: what was the purpose of posting those snippets?
     
  13. khadim.awliya

    khadim.awliya Banned

    Please summarize the points where he Dr Tahir al Qadri has stated clear cut kufric statement.

    I was browsing the fatwa of Dr. Akhtar Raza Khan and there was a point which my eye caught " Masjid is open to Jews and Christians " Taher al Qadri ?
    this is no clear cut kufric statement. Taweel can done and 99 excuses could be found.

    Please read what the fuqaha like Mullah Ali Qari, Ibn Hamam, Ibn Abidin, Ibn Nujaim have fatwa regarding takfir ( i have posted snippets in the beginning of the post -- details can be found in the references given )
     
  14. Abdul Mustafa 786

    Abdul Mustafa 786 Active Member

    Fatawa of Kufr on "Shaykh-ul-Islam Dr. Tahir-ul-Qadri"

    Please read the fataawa:
    Fatwa of Kufr on Tahir ul Qadri by Shaikhul Hadith Mufti Muhammad Fazl e Rasool Siyalvi Chisti: http://www.sunniport.com/masabih/showthread.php?t=9636

    English Translation of Shaikhul Hadith Mufti Fazl e Rasool Siyalwi's fatwa is attached.

    Fatwa of Kufr on "Tahirul Qadri" by Hazrat Taajush Shariah Mufti Akhtar Raza Khan Qadri al-Azhari, President of All India Sunni Jamiatul Ulama, Head Mufti of Central Darul Ifta - Bareilly: http://files.thesunniway.com:81/b/ur/ar/Fatwa on Tahir by Taaj al-Shariah.pdf

    Tajush Shariah's fatwa is also at: http://www.sunniport.com/masabih/showthread.php?t=10099

    Jamia Amjadia fatwa of Kufr on Prof. Tahir Jhangvi endorsed by Muhaddith-e-Kabeer Hazrat Zia ul Mustafa Qadri: http://www.sunniport.com/masabih/showthread.php?t=10079

    Detailed Urdu fatwa of Kufr issued against Tahirul Qadri regarding his recent Wembley "congregation" by Allama Mufti Kausar Hasan Rizwi of India (Khalifah of Huzoor Mufti Aazam Hind R.A.): http://www.ahlesunnat.biz/fatwakufrtahir.pdf

    Also see: "Dr. Tahirul Qadri" Celebrating Christmas and his Unity with Other Religions:http://www.sunniport.com/masabih/showthread.php?p=37816
     
  15. khadim.awliya

    khadim.awliya Banned


    فقهاء الحنفية من أكثر الفقهاء توسعاً في التكفير مما لم يقبله الحنفية أنفسهم ، فكانت لهم مواقف مختلفة من هذا التوسع بين مبرر له أو منكر ، لذا وضع بعضهم ضوابط لذلك لم نجدها عند غيرهم من الفقهاء ، فمنهم من عزا هذا التوسع إلى من ليس بفقيه ، وأنه لا عبرة بكلام غير الفقهاء (ابن الهمام ، شرح فتح القدير ، ط. دار إحياء التراث العربي – بيروت ، 5/334. )، ورفض آخرون هذا التوسع باعتباره خالياً من الأدلة وغير منسوب إلى قائل بعينه ولاحظ أن المسائل الاعتقادية تحتاج إلى أدلة قطعية وأن في تكفير المسلم مخاطر ومفاسد كبيرة (السعد التفتازاني ، شرح العقائد النسفية ، د.ط ، ص : 154. ) ، وقالوا إن المسألة المتعلقة بالكفر إذا كان لها تسع تسعون احتمالاً للكفر واحتمال واحد لنفيه فالأولى للمفتي والقاضي أن يعمل بالاحتمال النافي ( ملا علي القاري ، شرح الفقه الأكبر ، ط. البابي الحلبي – القاهرة ، ص : 162. )، وأنه لا يفتى بتكفير مسلم أمكن حمل كلامه على محمل حسن أو كان في تكفيره اختلاف ولو رواية ضعيفة ( ابن نجيم ، البحر الرائق ، ط. دار المعرفة – بيروت ، 5/134-135. ) و أضاف البعض : ولو كانت الرواية لغير أهل المذهب ( ابن عابدين ، رد المحتار على الدر المختار ، ط. البابي الحلبي – القاهرة ، 4/230. ).


     
  16. khadim.awliya

    khadim.awliya Banned

    The brothers opposing Dr Tahir al Qadri ( being called Kafir ul Padri on this forum ) can please in a simple, concise, brief way show his clear cut Kufr -- should be without any doubts, assumptions, implications.



    ويقول بعض فقهاء الأحناف: إن في تكفير المسلم مخاطر ومفاسد كبيرة. وقالوا: إن المسألة المتعلقة بالكفر إذا كان لها تسع وتسعون احتمالاً للكفر واحتمال واحد لنفيه فالأولى للمفتي والقاضي أن يعملا باحتمال النفي()ملا علي القاري: شرح الفقه الأكبر، ط الجلبي، القاهرة، ص 162.). وأنه لا يفتي بتكفير مسلم أمكن حمل كلامه على محمل حسن أو كان في تكفيره اختلاف ولو رواية ضعيفة(ابن نجيم، البحر الرائق ط دار المعرفة – بيروت، 5/134.]).


    قول النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم: لا يرمي رجل رجلا بالفسوق ولا يرميه بالكفر إلا ارتدت عليه إن لم يكن صاحبه كذلك. متفق عليه واللفظ للبخاري. وقوله صلى الله عليه وسلم: إذا قال الرجل لأخيه يا كافر فقد باء به أحدهما. متفق عليه.
    قال الحافظ ابن حجر في (فتح الباري): التحقيق أن الحديث سيق لزجر المسلم عن أن يقول ذلك لأخيه المسلم .. وقيل: معناه رجعت عليه نقيصته لأخيه ومعصية تكفيره. وهذا لا بأس به. وقيل: يخشى عليه أن يؤول به ذلك إلى الكفر، كما قيل: المعاصي بريد الكفر، فيخاف على من أدامها وأصر عليها سوء الخاتمة. وأرجح من الجميع أن من قال ذلك لمن يعرف منه الإسلام ولم يقم له شبهة في زعمه أنه كافر فإنه يكفر بذلك .. فمعنى الحديث: فقد رجع عليه تكفيره، فالراجع التكفير لا الكفر، فكأنه كفر نفسه لكونه كفر من هو مثله ومن لا يكفره إلا كافر يعتقد بطلان دين الإسلام. ويؤيده أن في بعض طرقه "وجب الكفر على أحدهما".

    وقال القرطبي: ... والحاصل أن المقول له إن كان كافرا كفرا شرعيا فقد صدق القائل وذهب بها المقول له، وإن لم يكن رجعت للقائل معرة ذلك القول وإثمه. كذا اقتصر على هذا التأويل في رجع، وهو من أعدل الأجوبة اهـ.




    Takfir is very serious issue by which you are making Dr Tahir al Qadri 's blood halal , his property halal and all those who are associated with him , their blood and property halal. This is very very serious issue.
     

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